Vaccines

[SonofJud]

Just watched an interesting Frontline about the controversy around not vaccinating children. Personally the video scared me(I think vaccination is a good thing, and believe the science backs it up), but I was curious if there was anyone here with a different opinion, especially as some TB'ers have their own kids. Your thoughts on not vaccinating kids?

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by SonofJud

Just watched an interesting Frontline about the controversy around not vaccinating children. Personally the video scared me(I think vaccination is a good thing, and believe the science backs it up), but I was curious if there was anyone here with a different opinion, especially as some TB'ers have their own kids. Your thoughts on not vaccinating kids?

Absolutely and utterly moronic.

There is zero evidence for vaccines causing autism. There are reams of evidence for vaccines preventing infectious diseases.

Plus never mind the fact that the number of people who would die from infectious diseases without vaccines exceeds the number of people diagnosed with autism by orders of magnitude.

[Mad Russian]

So I work for one of the larger manufacturers of vaccines. I am part of a team that manufacturers the MMR - we put the virus in the vial. And I have 2 kids.

The bigger problem is people not immunizing their children - a great personal and public safety risk. Really if a segment of the population does not immunize they are at risk of getting some pretty life threatening diseases and then spreading it.

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Absolutely and utterly moronic.

There is zero evidence for vaccines causing autism. There are reams of evidence for vaccines preventing infectious diseases.

Plus never mind the fact that the number of people who would die from infectious diseases without vaccines exceeds the number of people diagnosed with autism by orders of magnitude.

+1

That Frontline was full of ****.

[Mad Russian]

Thimerasol in Vaccines: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Mad Russian

The bigger problem is people not immunizing their children - a great personal and public safety risk. Really if a segment of the population does not immunize they are at risk of getting some pretty life threatening diseases and then spreading it.

Yep...

Vaccines are not 100% effective. For some people they don't work at all.

Those people depend on herd immunity to avoid diseases, and people not getting vaccinated hurts that.

[SonofJud]

Originally Posted by CapnSev

+1

That Frontline was full of ****.

Hmm, what do you mean by that? I got the impression that it was giving both sides of the issue. Do you mean some of the people they interviewed?

[drteeth]

For every cure in this world there is a nut claiming it is destroying the world.

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by SonofJud

Hmm, what do you mean by that? I got the impression that it was giving both sides of the issue. Do you mean some of the people they interviewed?

I guess so. There's zero evidence that vaccines cause psychological problems, and the people that say they do have nothing to back it up except a personal story that their kids have problems but they can't link it to the vaccinations.

My problem with Frontline is that this has been beat to death before, and Frontline is just fanning the flames and making it worse so they can have a "controversial" story.

I can tell you what vaccines don't cause though: measles, hep., mumps, malaria, etc.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Absolutely and utterly moronic.

There is zero evidence for vaccines causing autism. There are reams of evidence for vaccines preventing infectious diseases.

My ex-wifes best friend has two autistic kids, and she'll swear to her death that, in both cases, it was caused by vaccines. Don't get me wrong, I dont agree with her, but there are a lot of people out there who feed on misinformation.

Personally, I think her kids are autistic because she's a crazy party type person and she didnt take care of herself while pregnant.

Originally Posted by CapnSev

There's zero evidence that vaccines cause psychological problems, and the people that say they do have nothing to back it up except a personal story that their kids have problems but they can't link it to the vaccinations.

They jusy need something other than themselves to blame.

[MakiSupaStar]

This is what happens when a smattering of scientific finding meets some religious fanaticism and is then distributed by the word-of-mouth-coconut-telegraph operated by the conspiracy theorists.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Vaccines use either parts of viruses or infectious agents or neutered versions of the deadly strain. This is so your body can exhibit an immune response and then develop an immunological memory of the pathogen.

There is a very very very slim chance that a vaccination can cause a full on bout of what you are meant to be vaccinating again. But, that is literally one in several million cases (it varies with the vaccine).

As has also been mentioned, not everyone responds to vaccination, but the key concept here is herd immunity.

Oh, and the whole autism thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_...onduct_charges

[CapnSev]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

This is what happens when a smattering of scientific finding meets some religious fanaticism and is then distributed by the word-of-mouth-coconut-telegraph operated by the conspiracy theorists.

Did you just use a Jimmy Buffett reference?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by SonofJud

Just watched an interesting Frontline about the controversy around not vaccinating children. Personally the video scared me(I think vaccination is a good thing, and believe the science backs it up), but I was curious if there was anyone here with a different opinion, especially as some TB'ers have their own kids. Your thoughts on not vaccinating kids?

If you don`t vaccinate your children you`re an idiot and should have your children taken away, IMHO.

This isn`t directed at you, just people in general who believe that McCarthy BS.

[hbarcat]

We're starting to get measles outbreaks again in the U.S. because too many parents are refusing to vaccinate their children.


This 2008 outbreak was the first in San Diego since 1991, according to the report. Before the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1963, as many as 500 children died each year from the measles, and nearly 50,000 were hospitalized annually in the United States because of the virus, according to background information in the report.

In recent years, however, the virus has resurged as many parents choose not to vaccinate their children, often because of fears about serious side effects. In fact, a recent study from the University of Michigan found that even among those who do vaccinate, more than half are concerned about serious side effects. Many of these fears stem a reported link between the MMR vaccine and autism. This link has been disproved in numerous studies, however.


http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...ay/637218.html

[arbitrary]

Actually the scientific medical publication that released the study recently rescinded the study; the first time they've done so. I forget exactly, but the study was about intestinal issues and vaccines, and in the conclusions it mentioned a possible link between vaccines and autism that needed further study.

Found the link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02...ism/index.html

[i_got_a_mohawk]

To be honest, even if those issues do exist, it's a side effect which is worth the risk.

People seem to forget real a danger pathogens are. Just because in western society we have managed to reduce the cases of most deadly infections to near enough null, doesn't mean we are free of them. A generation without vaccination and we'd see the death toll from infection sky rocket.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Has the study only just been retracted? I thought it had been removed years back.

IIRC, the work wakefield did with autistic kids was at a special home. And it just happened that they had all been vaccinated. But by that logic, the air they were all breathing or the water they drank could have been just as likely a candidate.

As the wiki article points out, he was basically on the payroll of some solicitors and having some scientific backing was what they were after to try and sue some pharmaceutical companies. Sadly the peer review system has its faults

[EBodious]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Absolutely and utterly moronic.

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

If you don`t vaccinate your children you`re an idiot and should have your children taken away, IMHO.

This isn`t directed at you, just people in general who believe that McCarthy BS.

well, thank you very much. i guess its a good thing its a free country. that way i can think people who think they can tell other people how to parent shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

i selectively immunized my kids. i believe in people making their own informed decisions. i also think there are two sides to every story. i not gonna say that immunization causes autism.

factors that effected my decisions:
the schedule is intense for an infant (have you seen the current chart?). in japan they start immunization at 2 yrs of age. the reason the u.s. does it at 2 months is a policy decision not a health one. its more likely that the parents will come in rite after their kid is born.

i think it is better to let the child's immune system develop before hitting it with all the diseases. they say (and it has been true for me) that the kids will get sick more when they are little (again, bad policy cause it causes parents to miss work), but they will have stronger immune system the rest of their life.

my kids are older (14, 10), recently they have seriously reduced the amount of mercury in immunizations. back then, and earlier, it was a lot, and thus the cumulative amount of mercury infants were getting when one followed the whole schedule was higher than the epa's allowable level.

my kids got the tetanus vacc. cause i lived in an agricultural area and there is no cure for the disease. some of those immunizations (e.g. mumps, measles) are not dangerous, just inconvenient for working parents. some, like diphtheria, are only dangerous very early on. infants are now supposed to get immunized for hep, which is only transferred by sex. that doesn't seem necessary to me. i also don't think our society is safer if no one gets, and beats, chicken pox.

i have no problem with my kids choosing to get further immunized if they feel it necessary. like if they decide to travel to countries where some of those diseases are more of a threat.

twice, i have lived in a town that had major pertussis outbreaks. all the kids that came down with it were immunized. my kids were not immunized and did not get it. i credit that to their healthy immune systems. of course, i also believe we over sanitize our society. i think if we can't handle germs we will be screwed. i let the germs in so as to keep my immune system working. and i don't get sick. i get infested with germs, but i feel crappy for a few hours, get a good nite sleep, and i am fine. maybe that's just me.

consider the problems we are now having with over use of anti-biotics. i think there are similar risks in over immunizing.

btw, sanitation and other good public health codes have played a significant role in ridding our society of those old diseases. it is not just immunization.

i don't think it is a cut and dry topic. most topics aren't. over-simplification of the arguments pertinent to issues is a useful tactic for suppressing informed dissemination of information, open debate, and conscious decision making. i appreciate not being condemned for taking charge of my parenting decisions.

thank you very much.

[spade2you]

Not even remotely enough evidence and poorly contolled/developed "studies".