Violent Video games - Where do you draw the line?

Relic · #1 02-13-2009, 06:39 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sciencean...by-Amazon.html

katri · #2 02-13-2009, 06:58 AM

That is just waaaay too far, not even funny.

hover · #3 02-13-2009, 07:10 AM

Unbelievable and unconscionable. More fodder and fuel for an already problematic segment of society...and more proof that some programmers' idle fantasy should not be promoted nor rewarded...regardless of whatever lame "hey, there's a market for it" retort they try and hide behind. The fact that it exists is testament to the damaged morality of today.

Disgusting.

CrispyDelicious · #4 02-13-2009, 07:11 AM

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but...

There are people who are genuinely into rape fantasies. I know it sounds totally messed up to 99.9% of people, but to that .01%, it's perfectly fine. We don't put people in jail for consentually engaging in these activities. This game to me is another version of that. Should it be available to children? No. But any adult who is into this has every right to play that game, just as they have every right to engage in a rape fantasy with their partner, should they so choose (this is more popular than you think). If it's done in the privacy of their own home, fine, they're not hurting anyone. We already allow film, televison and literature to portray the most horrible scenes of violence, rape, torture... Outlawing this would just be sticking our collective head in the sand. There have always been people interested in activities the majority has termed "disgusting" or "unacceptable" or "immoral". Allowing this won't change our stance on the illegality of the actual act, in the same way which allowing murderous video games, film, and televison has not changed our stance on murder. It is totally messed up? To most of us, yes. But playing that game doesn't make you a violent rapist, no more than playing Grand Theft Auto makes you a homicidal crimelord.

Mark Latimour · #5 02-13-2009, 07:11 AM

Interesting that it appears to be completely kosher in the Japanese market. Overall my view tends to echo that of the poster above. However, I would temper it by saying that I agree with game "ratings" like movies and I would expect something like this to get the strongest possible rating or to be banned from sale in certain jurisdictions. However, its for individual socities to determine their own standards.

DaveDeVille · #6 02-13-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyDelicious

* Should it be available to children? No.

** We already allow film, televison and literature to portray
the most horrible scenes of violence, rape, torture...

*** It is totally messed up? To most of us, yes.

**** But playing that game doesn't make you a violent rapist,
no more than playing Grand Theft Auto
makes you a homicidal crimelord.

agreed , on all points .

Relic · #7 02-13-2009, 07:37 AM

but, wouldn't this be supremely offensive to victims of rape?
Essentially turning their most traumatic experience into a video game.

CrispyDelicious · #8 02-13-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

but, wouldn't this be supremely offensive to victims of rape?

That statement can then be applied to any videogame or movie that portrays any violent act that has been preformed upon another. I'll go back to GTA again. How many people have been carjacked, shot, had family members shot, had their neighbourhoods torn apart by crime and drugs? I'm sure they are supremely offended by these things, and would argue that their experiences are no less traumatic than that of a rape victim. But no, we're not going to stop making violent movies and videogames because we have every right to play/watch them, and to ban them would be an absurity. Yes, some people are going to be offended by Raplay (sp?) just as numerous people are offended by numerous other things. Like someone stated in another thread, you do not have the right to not be offended. We live in such a diverse world that everything offends someone. Quite frankly, I am appalled by some of the lyrics in certain genres of music, and I'm sure there are a lot of people offended by the violent imagery portrayed in some songs, but we don't ban them. I know they're out there, I just don't buy the cd's.

hover · #9 02-13-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

but, wouldn't this be supremely offensive to victims of rape?
Essentially turning their most traumatic experience into a video game.

Right. Just because someone, in a controlled environment can enact a fake rape with their consenting partner isn't the same as the traumatizing real world effects...and to make it a "game"? I mean come on.

Thing is with these games you're not marketting it to those people. Let's be honest. Now that it has media attention it will be in the hands of many more people, be it drunken frat boys who will just want it for a laugh ( a problem in itself ) to the just plain curious about the hooplah to God forbid, kids...

And to the grand theft auto comment, yeah, tell that to the 8 year old boy who took his grandma's Durango to do "fun hoodrat stuff"... you know, that video linked here a few weeks ago?

PSPookie · #10 02-13-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

but, wouldn't this be supremely offensive to victims of rape?
Essentially turning their most traumatic experience into a video game.

Couldn't one make the same argument about GTA and car-jacking victims?

Just because I find something personally distasteful does not mean that it should be summarily banned.

Relic · #11 02-13-2009, 07:51 AM

Good points on both sides of this issue.
My own personal opinion though - have we really gone that far down the crapper that we can use some of the most violent debasing and cruel things that can happen to a person for "fun"? If nothing is taboo, then where are we heading as a society (ies)?

Relic · #12 02-13-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSPookie

Couldn't one make the same argument about GTA and car-jacking victims?

Just because I find something personally distasteful does not mean that it should be summarily banned.

I don't allow GTA in my house, hate that game.
Of course, there is a bit of potential hypocrisy going on since I do allow war games.

CrispyDelicious · #13 02-13-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hover

Right. Just because someone, in a controlled environment can enact a fake rape with their consenting partner isn't the same as the traumatizing real world effects...and to make it a "game"? I mean come on.

Thing is with these games you're not marketting it to those people. Let's be honest. Now that it has media attention it will be in the hands of many more people, be it drunken frat boys who will just want it for a laugh ( a problem in itself ) to the just plain curious about the hooplah to God forbid, kids...

And to the grand theft auto comment, yeah, tell that to the 8 year old boy who took his grandma's Durango to do "fun hoodrat stuff"... you know, that video linked here a few weeks ago?

In the case of that kid, it's the parent's responsibility to

a) keep the game away from their kid
b) raise them to be non-violent

Obviously those parents are blithering idiots to allow their child to be playing that game. The fault is theirs, not the child's. And of course, it's the game that caused him to do that, right? Not violent, music, tv, or movies? As far as I am concerned, that event is more a symptom of parents not having any control over their ankle-biters these days. Had I ever attempted to bring that game into my house as a child my father would have tanned my hide so bad I wouldn't be able to sit for a week. Come to think of it, my parents screened every video game I ever bought.

As for this:

"Thing is with these games you're not marketting it to those people. Let's be honest. Now that it has media attention it will be in the hands of many more people, be it drunken frat boys who will just want it for a laugh ( a problem in itself ) to the just plain curious about the hooplah to God forbid, kids..."

Do you reaaaally believe that? Yes there may be the odd assortment of people who buy it as a joke or curiosity, but that still doesn't make them rapists. That makes them curious. In the end the people who play this game will likely be those who enjoy rape fantasies. Just like how Relic enjoys war games, I doubt he's going to enlist and jump into the front lines anytime soon.

CrispyDelicious · #14 02-13-2009, 08:15 AM

As as for kids getting the game, unless they live in their own apartment, their parents are massive, epic, failures.

Relic · #15 02-13-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyDelicious

As as for kids getting the game, unless they live in their own apartment, their parents are massive, epic, failures.

Only the children of exceptionally bad parents would somehow get this game? Potentially true, but it's not so black and white.

My parents were strict as heck back when I was younger, yet my brother and I still managed the occasional doobey without the 'rents knowing. I'm sure that you must have also pulled one over on your parents at one time or another, most of us have. It's part of being a kid.
I would say that the parents who can readily be labeled epic failures are the one who know and do nothing about it.

I guarantee that this game will be in the hands of kids in no time flat. If it's "forbidden" it's always "good"...

I don't personally feel that this game would instantly turn kids into rapists. My point is that the desensitization that's seems to be going on in modern society is getting alarming. Some things really should stay taboo and this is one of them.

scorpionldr · #16 02-13-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sciencean...by-Amazon.html

Typically I'd say you draw the line nowhere.
But then I saw this game and the point is when it becomes stupid and offensive (ok......well most are stupid, so I guess just offensive).

Games mostly put people in situations that are idealistic, but not overall damaging. I could see a known rapist from god knows where buying this up and playing it. It's like holding crack in front of an addict's face.

CrispyDelicious · #17 02-13-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

Only the children of exceptionally bad parents would somehow get this game? Potentially true, but it's not so black and white.

My parents were strict as heck back when I was younger, yet my brother and I still managed the occasional doobey without the 'rents knowing. I'm sure that you must have also pulled one over on your parents at one time or another, most of us have. It's part of being a kid.
I would say that the parents who can readily be labeled epic failures are the one who know and do nothing about it.

I guarantee that this game will be in the hands of kids in no time flat. If it's "forbidden" it's always "good"...

I don't personally feel that this game would instantly turn kids into rapists. My point is that the desensitization that's seems to be going on in modern society is getting alarming. Some things really should stay taboo and this is one of them.

I agree that some kids will get their hands on it just because it's so controversial, but I stand by my statement regarding parents. Sure I got stoned and may have snuck it by my parents a couple times, but they figured that out pretty quickly. Regardless, **** hit the fan if they ever caught me doing something they deemed genuinely immoral. It is a parents job to know what their child is up to, and all this "parents can't know what their kids are up to all the time" is another sign of the times - our society accepts that parents aren't ruling with an iron fist, which I believe they should, because quite frankly children are idiots (as are some adults, but thats a different situation) and NEED to be controlled until they have matured sufficiently to be able to successfuly differentiate fantasy from reality.

And hey, I agree that we are wholly desensitzed. Last week I took a lady hostage and shot some security guards - in a video game. But I was raised to know the difference between that game and reality.

katri · #18 02-13-2009, 08:40 AM

i'm not it would be ok to release it to adults, but if it was then kids would still end up playing it GTA is an 18+ game i know plenty of people that were laying GTA when they were like 10-13 which is a really impressionable age.

Relic · #19 02-13-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyDelicious

I agree that some kids will get their hands on it just because it's so controversial, but I stand by my statement regarding parents. Sure I got stoned and may have snuck it by my parents a couple times, but they figured that out pretty quickly. Regardless, **** hit the fan if they ever caught me doing something they deemed genuinely immoral. It is a parents job to know what their child is up to, and all this "parents can't know what their kids are up to all the time" is another sign of the times - our society accepts that parents aren't ruling with an iron fist, which I believe they should, because quite frankly children are idiots (as are some adults, but thats a different situation) and NEED to be controlled until they have matured sufficiently to be able to successfuly differentiate fantasy from reality.

And hey, I agree that we are wholly desensitzed. Last week I took a lady hostage and shot some security guards - in a video game. But I was raised to know the difference between that game and reality.

Parents should always know what their kids are up to, for sure. But sometimes parents DON'T know until after the fact. Case in point - we both got high before our parents found out. Does it make them bad parents because we were able to pull one over on them before they found out? Nope, it just makes us typical kids. But I'm just arguing semantics at this point though, by and large I think we agree.

This game just bugs me because to me, it's just a symptom of the whole downward spiral of modern society - both parents working, kids not getting enough attention and/or interaction with their parents, the rabid desensitization of all things taboo, entitlement, materialism, ego... each one on it's own, is no big deal, but taken all together? Where is this leading us?
Or am I just getting old, I dunno.

Mark Latimour · #20 02-13-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relic

Parents should always know what their kids are up to, for sure. But sometimes parents DON'T know until after the fact. Case in point - we both got high before our parents found out. Does it make them bad parents because we were able to pull one over on them before they found out? Nope, it just makes us typical kids. But I'm just arguing semantics at this point though, by and large I think we agree.

This game just bugs me because to me, it's just a symptom of the whole downward spiral of modern society - both parents working, kids not getting enough attention and/or interaction with their parents, the rabid desensitization of all things taboo, entitlement, materialism, ego... each one on it's own, is no big deal, but taken all together? Where is this leading us?
Or am I just getting old, I dunno.

Just as a thought experiment, what if the game was never meant for a market outside of Japan? Reading the article, it appears to be the third game of its kind in Japan, so perhaps rather than the downward moral spiral there, its just the status quo which that society finds acceptable.