Water Dowsing: Real or Ridiculous?

[bassrique]

Seemingly sane people swear by this technique that uses sticks to pinpoint where to drill a (water) well. The "best" technique uses two thin metal welding rods bent into "L" shapes. Holding the "L" handles, one searches and walks, walks and searches. When the rods move towards each other, you have water beneath you, or so the BS goes. There's no science behind this. It's junk, but I'm still intrigued.

[hover]

it's both. real ridiculous.

unless yer a full blooded Indian. they know stuff.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by bassrique

There's no science behind this.

Neither are there plausible hypotheses for how such a phenomenon would work nor repeatable results of it happening.

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

Neither are there plausible hypotheses for how such a phenomenon would work nor repeatable results of it happening.

i like that and will steal borrow it.

[Relic]

I knew a guy years back who used to use it to find water sources for wells on some local farms here. He swore on his life that it worked then even tried to show me how to do it once (I sucked). I'm a bit of a skeptic with stuff like that but I still think it's neat nonetheless

[tastybasslines]

When I walk by attractive women, my junk receives an electrical signal from the ladies who sent it. There is no science behind it, but it works. It brings the 2 together.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

We were actually talking about this the other day with a friend of mine.

Back in the day when I was a kid I tried it and it did "work". "Work" as in the twig did dip or point downwards at certain places, I could follow a line for a while, and the results were repeatable. We didn't dig any wells (solid rock ) so no telling what was in there. Haven't tried it in a few decades.

That said, I didn't believe in it back then, and I most certainly don't believe in it now.

Just someone's believing, or the lack of it doesn't make anything any more real or not though.

Regards
Sam

[cdef]

My grandpa dowsed for water many times, for himself and for neighbors, using a forked rowantree twig. Whatever one might think about the method, the results were not imaginary. The well he dug on his land in the 1920s is still functional, although there's plenty of iron in the water, making it a rusty brown.

[dave64o]

I'd say it's as reliable as a Ouija board.

[bassrique]

Originally Posted by cdef

My grandpa dowsed for water many times, for himself and for neighbors, using a forked rowantree twig. Whatever one might think about the method, the results were not imaginary. The well he dug on his land in the 1920s is still functional, although there's plenty of iron in the water, making it a rusty brown.

Had your GP thrown a rock and dug where it landed he might have found water too.

[duff beer]

Originally Posted by cdef

My grandpa dowsed for water many times, for himself and for neighbors, using a forked rowantree twig. Whatever one might think about the method, the results were not imaginary. The well he dug on his land in the 1920s is still functional, although there's plenty of iron in the water, making it a rusty brown.

Yes, the results are imaginary. Depending where your live, you can dig anywhere and find water 99.9% of the time. Therefore, picking any spot at random, dowsing, or choosing the place where your dog takes a dump will all work with equal success.

[bassrique]

This sums it up:

The Matter of Dowsing

By far the most common claim made for the Million Dollar Challenge offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) is dowsing.

Dowsing is as strictly defined the claimed ability to discover underground sources of water or metals by means of a "dowsing rod." Another term used is "divining." However, this terminology and its scope have been expanded and is now used with a far greater range of meanings. Dowsing now includes the claimed ability to discover almost anything, from water and minerals to missing children and archaeological sites. Each dowser will have his or her specialty. The device any dowser will use ranges from the traditional forked stick to just the bare hand. Pendulums, bent wires, wands of various sorts, and swiveled rods and housings are commonly encountered. In every case, the device used is a system in a state of unstable equilibrium, something that cannot easily be kept in a steady condition, and which is subject to very slight tremors, twitches, or changes of inclination. We've seen an astonishing variety of metal springs, coils, wires, balls, threads and bobbing elastic devices, all trembling and vibrating freely, used as dowsing machinery.

* Little Agreement
* A Wide Spectrum of Claims
* The Ideomotor Effect
* A Compelling Belief
* Excuses, Excuses

Currently, several “scientific” versions of dowsing rods which purportedly contain actual electronic circuitry, are being sold to government agencies in the USA for very high prices, as much as $14,000. One such stick, known as the “DKL LifeGuard,” is endorsed and validated by scientists who certainly should know better.

Little Agreement
Dowsers seldom agree on the basics of their claims. Some will insist that rubber footwear or footwear made of other insulating materials must be used by the operator, while an equal number insist that such materials inhibit the effect , and must never be used. Those who use stiff wires bent at right angles and held in each hand parallel to the ground, may say that the wires will cross one another when the sought-after object or substance is encountered; just as many say that the wires will diverge. Every dowser has his or her own personal theory, rules and preferred techniques.

Some claim that their power is divine in nature. Some say that dowsing is a learned art. Most claim that anyone can dowse successfully, while others say that it is an inherited gift. Some deny that it is in any way "paranormal," while some embrace that definition. Dowsers will often scoff at the claims of other dowsers, and will have a very limited set of parameters that they will accept as viable. Some say that they can only perform successfully if there is a real "human need" present; others are not so inhibited. Many say that they can find any object or substance, while others say they can find, for example, only flowing water moving underground, but not in pipes. Some are specifically pipe-locators, they say, and some only look for metal pipes, not plastic.

Most dowsers claim 100% accuracy. Very few claim anything less than 90%.

A Wide Spectrum of Claims
Water dowsers are by far the most common variety we have encountered, and they, too, exhibit a wide spectrum of claims. Some only look for fresh/potable water. With some, it must be moving water. Some cannot detect water in pipes, only "natural" water. Most say they can tell how far down the water is, and at what rate it will be delivered, once tapped. Water dowsers as well as some less specialized say they can be thrown off by magnetic fields, nearby electricity, machinery, buried meteorites, masses of metal, or other underground rivers that intersect their path. The list of elements and situations that they say can inhibit their performances is endless.

The bottom line is that they all fail, when properly and fairly tested. There are no exceptions. Even after they have clearly and definitely failed, they always continue to believe in their powers. Why should this be so?

The Ideomotor Effect
We are witnessing here a very powerful psychological phenomenon known as the "ideomotor effect." This is defined as, "an involuntary body movement evoked by an idea or thought process rather than by sensory stimulation." The dowser is unknowingly moving the device of choice, exerting a small shaking, tilt or pressure to it, enough to disturb its state of balance. This has been shown any number of times to be true, but the demonstration has meant nothing to the dowsers, who will persist in their delusion no matter how many times it is shown to them that dowsing does not work. The defensive reaction of most dowsers, following their failure, is to claim that they should not have submitted to any test, and will never do so again. And most will say that dowsing comes under special rules that deny that it can be tested, ever. The discouraging fact is that no dowser is ever convinced, as a result of proper double-blind testing, that they cannot dowse. Their need to believe is so strong and so ingrained, that they will refuse to accept any quality and/or quantity of good evidence. They have adopted a philosophy that shields them against reality.

There appears to be a feeling on the part of the dowsers that if they've been self-deceived, it indicates that they are therefore stupid or naive. This is certainly not the case. Any person, regardless of education, IQ, sophistication, or social position, can fall for the ideomotor phenomenon. An indication of that is that a great number of scientists mostly physicists have embraced belief in dowsing, in spite of their superior knowledge of how the world works. But this is an effect of the mind, a different matter from the workings of the common everyday objects and situations we encounter in our lives.

A Compelling Belief
Please be aware of this, however: though you may be puzzled over this seemingly strange conviction embraced by the dowsers, unless you have actually experienced the ideomotor effect at work in yourselves, you cannot have a proper appreciation of how absolutely compelling and irresistible it can be and is. In fact, dowsers are insistent that the disbeliever should try the effect and thereby become convinced of its efficacy; they assure you that once you've tried it, you'll change your mind. And they're often right in that respect; the dowsing device really seems to move on its own, in response to some sort of external signal or force. As a result of some imagined or real hint from nature water dowsers are often familiar with the topological or geographical signs or conditions that indicate the probability of water in any given spot the operator unconsciously tilts or impels the device, and believes that it is indicating the presence of the sought-after material. That is simply not true. It's a trick of the mind, a very convincing trick, but a self-deception nonetheless.

Now, I am fully aware that the dowsers will read this discourse and will manage to completely ignore it. I regularly receive expressions of pity from them, for my inability to accept the reality that they have discovered. Many applications that are received at the James Randi Educational Foundation from dowsers will express great wonderment at why the million-dollar prize has not already been awarded, when dowsing is such an easy thing, they say, to demonstrate. Many are amazed that dowsing is eligible for the prize at all, since it is so widely accepted and believed in. And each dowser assures me that they are going to be the one to show me the error of my ways, and to dazzle me with a simple demonstration.

Excuses, Excuses
Each dowser goes away from any trial of their powers, dismayed by their failure, puzzled at the reasons for the failure, but always capable of coming up with a reasonable to them excuse. That excuse may be any one of many. It may be an unfortunate arrangement of the planets, improper temperature or humidity, a problem of indigestion, too much ambient noise or too much silence or a poor attitude on the part of the observers. These are not invented excuses; they are all drawn from my personal experience in testing these folks.

I must say that of all those who have ever tried to win the Pigasus Prize, and of those who I have otherwise tested in every part of the world, no claimants even approach the dowsers for honesty. These are persons who are genuinely, thoroughly, self-deceived. In only two instances one in Australia and the other in the U.K. did I ever encounter any cheating being tried by dowsers. And those cases were easily solved and immediately terminated.

I ask all those who wish to claim the prize based upon their dowsing skills to first try a double-blind test of their abilities. We at the JREF can advise you how to design such a test protocol. You will find, I assure you, that the description above of the ideomotor effect will be proven valid. And I know full well that you, as a dowser, will refuse this advice and believe that, for you, such a procedure is not necessary. I base this conclusion on my many years of handling dowsing claimants.

If you wish to see a full account of the most definite set of dowsing abilities ever conducted, you may find it in the first two issues of Swift, the newsletter of the JREF. Numbers 1 and 2 of volume 1 may be purchased for US$6, postpaid, from the address on page 32. We sincerely recommend that you read this account before proceeding with your application.

Library, The Matter of Dowsing

[Munjibunga]

It's absurd. I know ... I got an A in Groundwater Hydrology class.

[FilterFunk]

Originally Posted by Relic

I'm a bit of a skeptic with stuff like that but I still think it's neat nonetheless

I'm with you. As long as old myths and customs don't hurt anybody, they're kinda neat. Just a part of good ol' folklore. I haven't thought about divining rods in years!

[tbrannon]

It makes zero sense to my brain, but it's how my dad, uncle and grandfather found every well on our properties. I've seen it done 7-8 times and honest to goodness, when the well drilling truck comes out and drills the spots they've pinpointed, it works every time.

Water isn't easy to come by here and I've seen guys who drill wells for a living have no success finding water until they try the spots my dad or uncle suggest.

EDIT- the only way I've seen it done is with sticks....

[DeltaPhoenix]

When I lived in Kentucky for several years, I was shown by an old man how he did it. I played with Dowsing and definately could follow the the underground water that led to a well that was on our property.
A little off topic, That same fellow also told me about "Ember Days". On certain dates on months that end in ember (September,Novenber, December) a nail could driven into a tree a kill it. I have absolutely no verification of that though.

[L-A]

If I'm not wrong, an aquifer is much larger than a well one would want to place over it.

If there's to be a well in your yard, you can probably place it where it's aesthetically most pleasing.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by L-A

If I'm not wrong, an aquifer is much larger than a well one would want to place over it.

If there's to be a well in your yard, you can probably place it where it's aesthetically most pleasing.

Correct. Here's a map of the Ogalalla Aquifer. Dowse anywhere in that area, and you'll get a producing well. This aquifer has been seriously depleted, though.

The anecdotal examples given in many of the thread's responses are comical.

For those of you who are interested, Wikipedia has a pretty good primer on aquifers.

[Bassamatic]

One of my electronics professors was not only good at it, he had a plausible explanation.

FIRST - He feels that the dowsing system is responding to magnetic field lines from the earth. These lines are more likely to be found or disturbed where there are cracks in the underlying rock strata, which is also where you are more likely to find water seeping up from underground rivers and aquifers.

SECOND - He feels that the reason that the success rate varies is because of variance in people's body chemistry. Some people are more conductive and also more SENSITIVE to the magnetic field changes.

He is a really smart guy and has never taught me wrong - so I say "plausible".

[Tat2dHeart]

Originally Posted by DeltaPhoenix

When I lived in Kentucky for several years, I was shown by an old man how he did it. I played with Dowsing and definately could follow the the underground water that led to a well that was on our property.
A little off topic, That same fellow also told me about "Ember Days". On certain dates on months that end in ember (September,Novenber, December) a nail could driven into a tree a kill it. I have absolutely no verification of that though.

"Ember Days" were common in my community back in podunk nowhere. The thing is, a copper nail driven into most types of trees any time of the year will kill them. Doing so in months that end in "-ember" gives you really great firewood with just the right moisture content to burn well in your wood-stove or fireplace during that winter season. Cutting the wood too early makes it burn hot and fast (too dry) and too late generates a lot of buildup in the flue (too green/sticky sap in the soot).