What would you do? How would you react?

[cassanova]

Each term the vocal ensemble at my college sings at graduation. Each year the professor orders me to pull my hair back into a pony tail. This year is no different.

I made a couple of tactful arguments stating that its my body so my choice on how I get to wear my hair and that if I have to pull it back then all the women with long hair should have to do the same because if not its discriminatory and sexist, but, I don't see it going over well because she said something along the lines of "tough."

Yeah I know it's stupid, because I would've probably pulled it back anyway. Its just the point of her tellign me I have to pull it back that I don't like. Especially when none of the long haired women have to. Hell, it's my body shouldn't I have the choice to wear it down if I want? Especially since I'll be performing music? My boss doesn't even tell me to pull it back.

One thing I didn't mention to her that I could use as a bartering chip is that the past few graduations we've sang with the vocal accompaniment cd. She is thinking about doing that again this year. That IMO is much worse than me having my hair down at graduation because it's cheating and comepletely unacceptable for college level music performances.

[MJ5150]

So what. Why get into this bartering and negotiating with her over something so trivial?

-Mike

[Thunderscreech]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

So what. Why get into this bartering and negotiating with her over something so trivial?

-Mike

This.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by cassanova

Each term the vocal ensemble at my college sings at graduation. Each year the professor orders me to pull my hair back into a pony tail. This year is no different.

I made a couple of tactful arguments stating that its my body so my choice on how I get to wear my hair and that if I have to pull it back then all the women with long hair should have to do the same because if not its discriminatory and sexist, but, I don't see it going over well because she said something along the lines of "tough."

Yeah I know it's stupid, because I would've probably pulled it back anyway. Itss ujust the point of her tellign me I have to pull it back that I don't like. Especially when none of the long haired women have to. Hell, it's my body shouldn't I have the choice to wear it down if I want? Especially since I'll be performing music? My boss doesn't even tell me to pull it back.

One thing I didn't mention to her that I could use as a bartering chip is that the past few graduations we've sang with the vocal accompaniment cd. She is thinking about doing that again this year. That IMO is much worse than me having my hair down at graduation because it's cheating and comepletely unacceptable for college level music performances.

i would agree that you're right,but it's better to pick your battles......why not show class and be agreeable when it costs nothing and folks will learn to respect you more when you dig in over a cause that means something

[SpamBot]

Originally Posted by Thunderscreech

This.

This.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

i would agree that you're right,but it's better to pick your battles......why not show class and be agreeable when it costs nothing and folks will learn to respect you more when you dig in over a cause that means something

I agree with you on this. Fortunately, I have a great deal of respect from the other 10 in the group.

Two things that are not negotiable are me shaving my beard like she wants me to and more importantly, if we sing over the vocal accompaniment again I will report this. I know it sounds dickish and I will feel bad doing it because I honestly like and respect this woman, but it is extremely unprofessional to lip sync when you're in a college vocal ensemble. If I wanted to sing over or along to canned music I can just stay home and do it to my cd's. Hell, it's not even complicated material, its "junior choir" material this year that we're doing so I definitely don't see a need for it.

[Headless Llama]

jesus had long hair... just saying... actually probably not, but he does in those paintings!

[guy n. cognito]

Your body, but her choir. You don't have to pull back your hair, but she doesn't have to allow you in her choir.

She wins.

[Pilgrim]

It's not your choir, it's hers. If you fight, you lose. I see no point in fighting this - it really doesn't matter to anyone but you.

As we get older, hopefully we learn that there are times when we "play our chips" to change things, and other times when we don't. This is not the time.

As you point out, your option is to stay home...or get the rest of the choir to agree with you. And who would you "report" it to? The audience?

You need to decide whether you're in or out - and if you're out, get out NOW so you don't harm the group by bailing on them at the last minute. That would make you the bad guy in this situation.

[BioBiro]

Originally Posted by cassanova

...if we sing over the vocal accompaniment again I will report this. I know it sounds dickish and I will feel bad doing it because I honestly like and respect this woman, but it is extremely unprofessional to lip sync when you're in a college vocal ensemble...

Without sounding condescending, you'll look back on this in a few years and realize it's not important. She's a bit crusty and old, her opinions are set it stone - 'girls have long hair, guys should look neat and tidy'.

Threatening your choir leader with reporting her using a backing CD is a situation that isn't capable of having a positive outcome, and doesn't fall under the category of a 'bartering chip'. Doing her the favour of tying your hair back (and her being aware that you didn't want to) is what you call a 'bartering chip' .

[jmattbassplaya]

Although I agree with most responses here, I`m like you in the sense that I don`t like being told what to do over something so trivial. I don`t see why it should matter to her just as much as why it should matter to you. It`s a lose/lose situation, really. I would fight it myself, but I hope you don`t because it really isn`t worth it.

[warwick.hoy]

What would I do?

Out of spite I'd get a haircut.

[Ericman197]

Originally Posted by cassanova

I agree with you on this. Fortunately, I have a great deal of respect from the other 10 in the group.

Two things that are not negotiable are me shaving my beard like she wants me to and more importantly, if we sing over the vocal accompaniment again I will report this. I know it sounds dickish and I will feel bad doing it because I honestly like and respect this woman, but it is extremely unprofessional to lip sync when you're in a college vocal ensemble. If I wanted to sing over or along to canned music I can just stay home and do it to my cd's. Hell, it's not even complicated material, its "junior choir" material this year that we're doing so I definitely don't see a need for it.

Just a brutally honest heads up, but if she wants you to tie your hair back and cut your beard, it's probably because it looks unprofessional. Facial hair doesn't look good on many guys, nor does long hair.

I don't care if a dude has a beard, long hair, or whatever, but there are many people out there who do. I have to shave every day and it suuuuuckkkkksssssss and I'd much rather walk around with a patchy half beard and shave whenever I feel like it.

If the hair/beard is a religious thing, then you gotta do what you gotta do. But if it's just an issue of "my body, I do what I want!" then seriously consider just listening to her: shave the beard and tie your hair back. She probably cares more about your refusal to follow the rules than about the hair itself.



edit: whoah you're 39, I figured you were 20 or something. Took out the stuff that was targeted more towards young college students.

[Simo98]

How much does the choir mean to you? How much does your hair being down mean?

If you really don't want to tie your hair back, write her a letter stating you opinions and why you believe it to be unfair that you have to tie your hair back, be reasonable and expain how you see it from her point of view, but you hair means a lot to you ect ect. Also ask for her to arrange a time to speak to you about it.

If she still doesn't let you wear it down after discussing it, and you still disagree with why she wants you to tie it back, your options are quit the choir, or do as your told and tie it up.

I find people often respond much better to an issue like this in writing as they have time to read it and think about it in their own time, without being instantly pressured to make a decision.

[yodedude2]

one other option...start your own vocal ensemble. then you get to decide...well, everything. later, ron

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

It's not your choir, it's hers. If you fight, you lose. I see no point in fighting this - it really doesn't matter to anyone but you.

As we get older, hopefully we learn that there are times when we "play our chips" to change things, and other times when we don't. This is not the time.

As you point out, your option is to stay home...or get the rest of the choir to agree with you. And who would you "report" it to? The audience?

You need to decide whether you're in or out - and if you're out, get out NOW so you don't harm the group by bailing on them at the last minute. That would make you the bad guy in this situation.

[rap138]

agree with most of the guys here, it's unfair but there is no reason to go with a fight on this, just tie your hair and enjoy your performance, you'll have bigger things to worry about. good luck

[MakiSupaStar]

Pick your battles based on this criteria. Do you like her as a professor other than this point? Have you learned things that you can apply to your own music? If the answer is yes, then allow her this request. Think of it as doing something that makes her happy other than something that she can't force you to do. You'll find out that more often than not opting to conform even when you don't have to pays off in the long run because you're seen as a nice guy.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Although I agree with most responses here, I`m like you in the sense that I don`t like being told what to do over something so trivial. I don`t see why it should matter to her just as much as why it should matter to you. It`s a lose/lose situation, really. I would fight it myself, but I hope you don`t because it really isn`t worth it.

I was thinking about that. I'm a team player so it doesn't really matter to me because I've tied it back at every graduation I've sang at. I go into that class with it pulled back, so its not like I don't mind pulling it back it's the fact that she ordered me to pull it back that I don't like. I'm also mature enough to know that often times we have to do things we don't want to.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

As you point out, your option is to stay home...or get the rest of the choir to agree with you. And who would you "report" it to? The audience?

No the dean of the department. I thought about using it as a batering chip but thats quite stupid. She knows how I feel about the lip syncing though. She will even tell you that she doesn't like doing it. In fact, the ones in the group that are against this are the ones that play musical instruments on a regular basis. Those that just like to sing and don't make any sort of compensation are okay with singing along to the CD. If I do report us lip syncing it will have nothing to do with not being able to pull my hair back. It will have everything to do with it being unprofessional and not college level work. Would you play over a prerecorded track at one of your gigs???

You need to decide whether you're in or out - and if you're out, get out NOW so you don't harm the group by bailing on them at the last minute. That would make you the bad guy in this situation.

This isn't something any of us can just quit. It's an acutal class that we get credit and a grade for. Since the withdrawal period is over, quitting isn't an option. I've also always been a team player with the group. I will not harm them in any way because when push comes to shove, I do what I'm told and oddly enough, other than the professor, I am the most professional one in the group.

[Pilgrim]

Maki and I agree on this, and we're both involved in education. This falls well within the normal weirdness of a faculty member...and it sounds like you realize that. I doubt that anything going on would surprise the head of the department or the dean. Trust me, they deal with much more significant things every day.

There are times when you go to the mat for something, but this just doesn't look like one of those times. I hear your frustration, but in your later posts I also hear a grasp of reality.

Maki is right; in fact, this person could become part of your personal network in the future if you make her happy. Such things can pay off in surprising ways when you need a letter of reference or a good word dropped to a mutual acquaintance.

You don't need to agree with someone all the time to see the value of keeping peace with them.