When the economy rebounds

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Balog

Would you be ok with the employees taking a pay cut when times are hard? Or should it be a one way street?

In my experience asking employees to take a pay cut (and/or removing paid time off) is blindingly common.

My last job had a 10% paycut and all time off suspended indefinitely. Since I left two years ago the pay cut has remained in place, and the suspended time off (vacation and sick time) were completely taken away from all the employees.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Balog

I haven't seen good programmers, or competent folks with degrees in engineering (electrical or another desirable type anyway) not be able to find work.

Talk to a few who are 50+ years old, out of a job, and looking for work.

[Balog]

Originally Posted by aborgman

Talk to a few who are 50+ years old, out of a job, and looking for work.

Meh, nothing is a guarantee of a job. No guarantees in life in general. But the odds are certainly with someone who has documented knowledge in a practical field. And at least here in Seattle I know a number of tech companies who can't find competent programmers of any age.

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

My company has had job postings up for months and can't find qualified people to fill them. I didn't get a bonus, but I got a very substantial raise this year. Now, this is Canada, not the US. Oh, the economy is getting better, the US unemployment rate is dropping, the GDP is up again ect. The US hasn't been in a recession since the third quarter of 2009, time for the media to stop talking about the bad economy just because it sells.

lowsound

Even during depressions, there are sectors that are doing great. Repo men probably did GREAT during the crisis.

From a purely economic standpoint, yes the economy is getting steadily better.

From an employment standpoint, this has been, and continues to be a terrible recovery. Much of the employment rate dropping has come from people leaving the workforce temporarily or permanently. Look at the labor participation rate instead of the unemployment rate.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

I think we have at least 5 more years of a largely crappy economy. These things tend to run on larger secular trends of 15 or so years, and we are somewhere in the middle of that depending on how you measure.

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

Ok... so when the economy rebounds and the job market gets going again (hopefully) what will be the result? Will employers end up paying in the long run for their actions (i.e. good employees jumping ship, disgrunted employees writing bad job reviews on employment forums/job sites, etc.).

When the employment economy recovers, employers will have to compete for workers like they always have had to.

Businesses just aren't seeing much demand anywhere. The US is still deleveraging, Europe is a mess, and China is still largely a mystery.

Businesses will hire when they start being confident that it won't be money wasted. There just isn't much demand anywhere.

[Mr_Music90]

Well, not trying to sound like a racist or such, but my company has to ''save'' 400.000 euro, there is no money for new equipment, but about 25 foreigners who work for us, get dutch lessons that our company pays.. Right.. what are they more that we (the dutch people) aren't?

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by aborgman

In my experience asking employees to take a pay cut (and/or removing paid time off) is blindingly common.

My last job had a 10% paycut and all time off suspended indefinitely. Since I left two years ago the pay cut has remained in place, and the suspended time off (vacation and sick time) were completely taken away from all the employees.

that's shockingly bad.

and it ties in with my answer... my guess is that some companies will use "the present climate" to erode employee conditions and rights, and will be unwilling to budge no matter whether things get better or not.

[knumbskull]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Well, not trying to sound like a racist or such, but my company has to ''save'' 400.000 euro, there is no money for new equipment, but about 25 foreigners who work for us, get dutch lessons that our company pays.. Right.. what are they more that we (the dutch people) aren't?

does sound a bit racist, i'm afraid.

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

My company has had job postings up for months and can't find qualified people to fill them. I didn't get a bonus, but I got a very substantial raise this year. Now, this is Canada, not the US. Oh, the economy is getting better, the US unemployment rate is dropping, the GDP is up again ect. The US hasn't been in a recession since the third quarter of 2009, time for the media to stop talking about the bad economy just because it sells.

lowsound

you can keep trying to tell me that. and i'll tell you that the price of food and every day things one needs to buy goes up weekly.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Balog

Meh, nothing is a guarantee of a job. No guarantees in life in general. But the odds are certainly with someone who has documented knowledge in a practical field. And at least here in Seattle I know a number of tech companies who can't find competent programmers of any age.

In Michigan companies are CLAMORING for machinists - going on and on and on about how they can't find qualified people.

Yet I personally know half a dozen super experienced machinists and fabricators who can't get jobs and have been unemployed in the 1-2 year range.

One thing in common? Age.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by knumbskull

that's shockingly bad.

...and about 50% of those folks were degreed engineers.

Needless to say - I ran while the running was good.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by JimB52

My company perhaps doesn't value me as much as I value myself, but that's not going to change no matter what the economy is doing.

Yup.

I graduated in '05 when I could have my pick of employers and a sign on bonus. We used to get 2 raises per year, one based on market adjustment/cost of living, the other based on our performance eval. We still get the performance eval, but it's much lower than it was back in the day and far below the rate of inflation.

The market collapse stopped many from retiring. Colleges also got greedy and are producing more pharmacists than the market needs. Now you have to basically go to BFE to be an overnight pharmacist, take it or leave it!

[powderfinger]

Originally Posted by jasper383

Even during depressions, there are sectors that are doing great. Repo men probably did GREAT during the crisis.

From a purely economic standpoint, yes the economy is getting steadily better.

From an employment standpoint, this has been, and continues to be a terrible recovery. Much of the employment rate dropping has come from people leaving the workforce temporarily or permanently. Look at the labor participation rate instead of the unemployment rate.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

I think we have at least 5 more years of a largely crappy economy. These things tend to run on larger secular trends of 15 or so years, and we are somewhere in the middle of that depending on how you measure.

Oh yes, there are several sectors that are going well..

1) national security organizations- you know, bc like everyone is a suspected terrorist now... gun owners, OWS, Tea Party, preppers, gun owners, 3rd party voters, people who own camping equipment gear, people who store canned goods, et al.

2) Loan sharking

3) Bill collectors (goes without saying)

4) Prostitution- the oldest profession!

5) Gravediggers- death is certain

6) IRS workers (the other certainty)

7) Private prisons- more laws. cheap labor. big profits!

[Unprofessional]

This thread is highly entertaining. The dancing in particular is first rate.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

Oh yes, there are several sectors that are going well..

...

4) Prostitution- the oldest profession!

I'm wondering how you know this?

[powderfinger]

Originally Posted by Febs

I'm wondering how you know this?

If you ever drive thru my town late at night you'll see for yourself.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

Oh yes, there are several sectors that are going well..

1) national security organizations- you know, bc like everyone is a suspected terrorist now... gun owners, OWS, Tea Party, preppers, gun owners, 3rd party voters, people who own camping equipment gear, people who store canned goods, et al.

2) Loan sharking

3) Bill collectors (goes without saying)

4) Prostitution- the oldest profession!

5) Gravediggers- death is certain

6) IRS workers (the other certainty)

7) Private prisons- more laws. cheap labor. big profits!

The only one of these I qualify for is prostitution.

Actually I suspect that's not doing so well either. Most of their clients are married professionals with a lot of disposable income. Unless you work for the government there are a lot less of you in that class.

I'm with the "if" the economy recovers. The overall unemployment in the Euro zone is 11% and the US is moving towards that "style" of economy. I see no reason to believe the economy will get better, especially with our population aging and having to cover the promised benefits to the aging baby boomers. The demographics are not good.

[Balog]

Originally Posted by aborgman

In Michigan companies are CLAMORING for machinists - going on and on and on about how they can't find qualified people.

Yet I personally know half a dozen super experienced machinists and fabricators who can't get jobs and have been unemployed in the 1-2 year range.

One thing in common? Age.

Correlation != causality, plural of anecdote (or singular in this case) is not data etc etc.

Maybe some companies in Michigan are hating on older employees, but you can't try to make some sort of generalized statement out of that.

[viper4000]

For all of you that are seriously looking for employment, please consider driving truck. Driving truck is a good paying job that typically allows for guaranteed raises every year. There will always be a need (in our lifetime) and that skill is transferable all around the world. There is a continued shortage of commercial drivers. Glamorous? Probably not to all. In my company top earning drivers are making around 80K per year. And it's around 45K for entry level drivers. I don't consider that chump change at all. These are company drivers, not owner/operators. The owner/operators are making in the range of 150K per year pre-tax.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by viper4000

For all of you that are seriously looking for employment, please consider driving truck. Driving truck is a good paying job that typically allows for guaranteed raises every year. There will always be a need (in our lifetime) and that skill is transferable all around the world.

Not always, my teleportation device is almost complete. Care to contribute to my kickstarter fund?