When is it OK to lie?

[Quickie]

When is it?

To save a life? To get a raise? To not hurt someones feelings? To do your job?

[madmatt]

Literally?
Never.

[jmattbassplaya]

"Honey, does this dress make me look fat?" "Nope."
"Baby, does size matter?" "Nope."

It goes both ways

[RyanJD]

Some might say that it's okay when the consequences of having the lie found out are worth it.
I don't exactly know about that, but in the Bible, a woman lied to guards that were looking for some men who were following God's will, and in doing that, she saved their lives.

[Phil Smith]

When you're posting anonymously on a message board.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

When you're posting anonymously on a message board.

[Joe Gress]

"Is that your joint?" "No officer." :giggle snort:

[Unrepresented]

The question presupposes a moral hierarchy of activities. Based on this, one would assume that lying is appropriate when counteracting activities with greater harm, or inversely creating greater good that would offset the negative moral value of the lie.

Of course, to do this, we'd have to have a uniform (or for you blind idealists out there, an "objective") set of moral rankings of all activities, by all people, in all situations, and be able to comprehend the value of all alternative outcomes.

Unfortunately the time, research, computation, and compilation involved in the study of any particular act and its associated nearly infinite set of lies, half truths, misleading statements, and sins of omission would almost immediately crush society's resources, and we'd all die starving and soaking in our excrement while eaten by various taxa of scavengers, and low level predators.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

The question presupposes a moral hierarchy of activities. Based on this, one would assume that lying is appropriate when counteracting activities with greater harm, or inversely creating greater good that would offset the negative moral value of the lie.

Of course, to do this, we'd have to have a uniform (or for you blind idealists out there, an "objective") set of moral rankings of all activities, by all people, in all situations, and be able to comprehend the value of all alternative outcomes.

Unfortunately the time, research, computation, and compilation involved in the study of any particular act and its associated nearly infinite set of lies, half truths, misleading statements, and sins of omission would almost immediately crush society's resources, and we'd all die starving and soaking in our excrement while eaten by various taxa of scavengers, and low level predators.

[colcifer]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

"Honey, does this dress make me look fat?" "Nope."
"Baby, does size matter?" "Nope."

Someone sig this.

[Strat-Mangler]

As somebody said ; literally? Never.

BUT,... that's an ideal that nobody has ever attained. Everybody lies all the time without realizing it. It's not a perfect world and we therefore need to do so on a regular basis.

To answer the question in a realistic sense...my experience has told me that if nobody gets hurt, it's OK to lie if you have to.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

The question presupposes a moral hierarchy of activities. Based on this, one would assume that lying is appropriate when counteracting activities with greater harm, or inversely creating greater good that would offset the negative moral value of the lie.

Of course, to do this, we'd have to have a uniform (or for you blind idealists out there, an "objective") set of moral rankings of all activities, by all people, in all situations, and be able to comprehend the value of all alternative outcomes.

Unfortunately the time, research, computation, and compilation involved in the study of any particular act and its associated nearly infinite set of lies, half truths, misleading statements, and sins of omission would almost immediately crush society's resources, and we'd all die starving and soaking in our excrement while eaten by various taxa of scavengers, and low level predators.

The pretty much hit the nail on the head

My 2 cents:
NEVER lie to your self, cause then you become delusional xD
I understand lying for the sense of good, but I do not believe in lying to those you care most about, regardless of the outcome. As in, when a conflict arises and it is just between you and someone else ( not involving the law, or a form of death, or anything along those lines) be honest. It goes a lot further then to let it get out of hand.
-Say you cheat on your woman, and you really care about her, but you decide to not tell her because it would hurt her feelings.... rethink it. Its seems good to not want to her twice (doing the act, and then telling her) but the guilt builds up quite powerful:
You would be concerned about her ever finding out
Every time she is upset you immediately think she knows the truth, and then when you find out she does not, her being upset seems a bit less important now that you know you are in the clear.
The amount of weight you will carry on your shoulders throughout the days will only get heavier
You will look into her eyes and when she is being sweet, you will think of that moment of wrongfulness.

But yeah, this isn't a relationship thread, that was just an example that people seem to experience when they ask about lying in a vague sense.

The same can apply to friendships, and how you present yourself. You lie to build up yourself, then you are building a house on sand.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

The same can apply to friendships, and how you present yourself. You lie to build up yourself, then you are building a house on sand.

And thus he is now an "ex" friend of mine.

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

-Say you cheat on your woman, and you really care about her, but you decide to not tell her because it would hurt her feelings.... rethink it. Its seems good to not want to her twice (doing the act, and then telling her) but the guilt builds up quite powerful:
You would be concerned about her ever finding out
Every time she is upset you immediately think she knows the truth, and then when you find out she does not, her being upset seems a bit less important now that you know you are in the clear.
The amount of weight you will carry on your shoulders throughout the days will only get heavier
You will look into her eyes and when she is being sweet, you will think of that moment of wrongfulness.

When my wife and I separated for a time in the 90's, she met someone and I met someone. We only said we had met someone. Nothing more was ever said. Nothing need be. What she did at that time was her business as was whatever I did, mine.

I don't feel guilty not getting into the details. It would serve no purpose. In a way, I lied by withholding the truth.

[Radical Edward]

I'm brutally honest with people and try very hard not to lie. If I lie out of habit or slip up, I generally will apologize. The only times that I do lie are usually when it's to protect someone's else's secrets.
That said, I don't think it's right or okay to lie, but sometimes it's necessary to preserve greater things, like friendship and love.

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

I'm brutally honest with people and try very hard not to lie. If I lie out of habit or slip up, I generally will apologize. The only times that I do lie are usually when it's to protect someone's else's secrets.
That said, I don't think it's right or okay to lie, but sometimes it's necessary to preserve greater things, like friendship and love.

Well said.

[fenderhutz]

Well even though I don't agree with teaching kids this:

Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
Tooth Fairy
Etc Etc

White lies are still lies. Just because it's kids doesn't make it less of a lie. Lying is lying regardless of intent.

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Well even though I don't agree with teaching kids this:

Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
Tooth Fairy
Etc Etc

White lies are still lies. Just because it's kids doesn't make it less of a lie. Lying is lying regardless of intent.

the Easter Bunny is real...

[Quickie]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Well even though I don't agree with teaching kids this:

Easter Bunny
Santa Claus
Tooth Fairy
Etc Etc

White lies are still lies. Just because it's kids doesn't make it less of a lie. Lying is lying regardless of intent.

Well, just tell them about taxes, std's, poverty and death instead.

Originally Posted by pacojas

the Easter Bunny is real...

Darn toot-in. I lay next to her every night.

[FilterFunk]

Some big, mean, nasty-lookin' dude walks up to you and asks, "Do you know where I can find (insert a friend's or family member's name here)?" You know exactly where the person in question is. Lie to the big, mean, nasty-lookin' dude.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by pacojas

the Easter Bunny is real...

Was.

I kinda shot him on accident last hunting trip. Poor guy should of kept his little cotton white *** on the ground