where do you sit on ancient astronaut theory?

[basscooker]

so when i was about 14 i saw "chariots of the gods", and it really got ahold of me. by today's standards, it's a really crappy and cheezy production, but that aside if you haven't seen it take the time.

i'm not here to start--or even touch on any religious beleifs-- for example the vatican itself issued a statement saying belief in e.t.'s was not contradictory to faith, and hinduism specifically embraces this theory, not to mention other faiths as well.

my question is this: has anyone been watching the history channel's show? thoughts? there's only (about) 12 months until 12-21-12. and lastly, if the world is going to end, do we buy chrismas presents next year?

serious, humorous, angry, sad, whatever. let's hear your thoughts.

[madmatt]

I guess anything is possible.
My thoughts on space travel have me believing that some new mode of propulsion must be needed. If I were brilliant I would believe that there must be some way to manipulate gravity as a form of propulsion. Have no idea how tho.

In ancient Mesopotamia they:
1) Developed language, and
2) Describe an alien race which advanced Human evolution basically.
Where would a bunch of cavemen come up with such ideas?

[Demon_Hunter]

Originally Posted by basscooker

and lastly, if the world is going to end, do we buy chrismas presents next year?

hmm....will there be any Black Friday sales and mass hysteria to buy that $3 waffle iron at wal mart?

[basscooker]

i was thinking of covering all the bases. i'll get my kids totally into camping this coming year, load up on tons of survivalist gear--- and if nothing happens on 12-21 the kids get tons of gear for christmas.

so yeah, sumaria. you should check out "earth chronicles". it's like 12 books, but really cool reading, and they go for like 2 bucks each on ebay in paperback. i've got the first three.

have you seen the tv show? a good 20 or so episodes so far and they still keep coming up with stuff i haven't heard or read about yet, and i've been interested for 25 years or so in the topic. the show must be doing well because next year they're moving it to a subscription channel (a**h***s).

modern archaeology has pretty much accepted that written language emerged globally around the same time. pretty strange.

[geoffthomas57@h]

I dig it all. It would be good to access that technology and save the world from the neocons etc.
But what I really want to know is what music they played? What instruments they developed? If they could levitate mighty stone blocks , just think about the fearfull bottom end they could have created.

[basscooker]

+1! imagine the math involved with the music they'd have created. walls of jericho? yeah i don't think trumpets brought that s*** down! pure bassssssss! booooooooooom!

[C.Linton]

Nova did a show that showed Von Daniken and his whole "Ancient Astronaut" theory as presented in his books was a complete load of BS. Just one small example of the kind of fudging that was typical of his work, Daniken showed a close-up picture of a circle etched into the ground as a part of the drawings on the Plains of Nazca that he claimed was a marking for a landing pad for a UFO. The problem was he didn't bother to mention the circle was all of 3 feet in diameter, hardly large enough to act as a landing circle for anyhting but a toy spaceship. His entire stream of "evidence" was rife with these kind of discrepansies and downright attemptss to mislead. Nova was able to handily disprove every claim that Von Daniken made, as well as those who referred to him in their own bogus attempts to make the same claims using his falsified data.
Now this is not to say I don't believe in the possibility of life outside of our planet, I think it more likely than not, but to date there is no solid evidence to prove such, or that they have visited us, and to be sure Von Daniken and his "Chariots of the Gods" is decidedly not evidence of anything, other than people's gullibility.

[basscooker]

k. so we crawled out of caves wearing furs and built megalithic temples with sticks, bone and sinue thread. i did mention that it was a crappy production, right? it's the idea more than anything i was bringing up. i still every episode of the show i was referring to see or hear something that makes me go "pshaw" but there's too much stuff newer to dismiss that a very large part of our human legacy is missing. too much denial about modern archaeology's lack of inclusion of this as a legitimate theory. look for "forbidden archaeology". it's about 900 pages of technical research data, from many fields including paleoanthropology, geology, biology and archaeology. and not one mention of extraterrestrials. is it scientifically sound to dismiss anomilous evidence just because it doesn't fit the current accepted model of history? hey, i'm not saying anybody is right or wrong, just that i love this stuff.

[Sublab]

I'm a believer of the human consciousness growing beyond the realm of mind and matter, developing a universal and cosmic consciousness already present in the human brain in a dormant state. But probably things will get worse before they get better. In Brussels a local outburst of TBC is happening right now. TBC.... We were totally done with that, now it's back. Rising water levels all over the world. The driest countries getting even drier. Regular storms growing out of proportion.... and so on.

[hrodbert696]

OK, numerologists... the system of common era/anno domini dating was developed by a monk living at Rome in the 6th century AD. He was trying to calculate how many years it was since the incarnation of Christ and he got it wrong by at least four years. At that point in time, nobody numbered the days of the month; there were the Kalends to start the month and the Ides to mark the middle of it and you counted how many days there were to the next Kalends or Ides. That's how the Romans had counted days and medieval people kept using the same system (though they often also counted by reference to the nearest saint's feast day or holy day). I don't even know when people started counting the days of the month from 1 to 30 but it wasn't until late in the Middle Ages or even the early modern period. For that matter, the Romans only had ten months in the year till Julius Caesar reformed the calendar. In short, there is NO ancient cosmic significance to the calendar, to 12/12/2012 or 2/12/2012 or 12/21/2012 or 12/21/2112 or 2/22/2222 or whatever other coincidence of numbers one cares to draw attention to.

As for the original question about aliens; the whole chariots of the gods thing is based on backwards logic. Nobody would look at the individual things that get mentioned, ask how they came into existence, and conclude that they show that aliens came to earth. Every single thing is perfectly explainable in terms of the beliefs and engineering capabilities of ancient peoples. It's only if you assume (without evidence) that there ARE aliens, and then go around looking for signs of them, that any of this can remotely be taken as evidence of them. That's backwards logic.

The "ancient aliens" thing comes from two failings; one is to vastly underestimate the intelligence of ancient humans and assume that they couldn't figure anything out unless superior beings came and taught them. That's absurd. The other is to vastly underestimate the periods of time involved. Just from the beginnings of agriculture in the Middle East to the period when pyramids and ziggurats start to be built is thousands - thousands - of years. That is a LOT of time for accumulated observation, stargazing, trial-and-error building, etc., to build up, not only within one person's lifetime but from generation to generation.

It all makes lovely science fiction, and I'm a fan. But none of this is to be taken seriously.

[C.Linton]

That's about as well put as it could get, hrodbert. That's pretty much what Nova had to say about Von Daniken's theory, as well as him basically outright altering the facts to suit his story.

[Jazz Ad]

Ancient astronaut theory isn't needed to explain anything in our history or surroundings.
Sure one can believe in it but what's the point?

[Dr. Cheese]

Anything is possible, but the level is evidence is very light. If we found an old vehicle like a spaceship or the alien equivalent of a Mars Rover, it would be much more convincing. The remains of an old landing site with discarded machinery would make a difference too. Bodies would be interesting if they are found in conjunction with other evidence.

[basscooker]

the mayans (and all ancient societies) used astronomical means to track time. the calculations, including precession, put their final baktun (a name for a period of time) in OUR calendar's date. not one single ancient society said hey the world is ending in 2012. they said there would be events happening in their eqivalent of what WE say is 2012. [and just rereading your post, i can see how you thought i was bringing in some kind of "something must be happening because the dates look cool" mentality to it all. no. the fact that on the modern gregorian calendar the vernal equinox end/winter solstice beginning next year happens to read 12/21/2012 is just a neat looking coincidence. i actually didn't understand the first sentence the first time i read it.. "numerology? who said that?" i guess you thought i did ]

what agriculture are you speaking of? earth came out of the ice age about 12,000 years ago, or more recently, depending on where, and we were living in caves for 30,000 years prior to that. the notion that ancient man had the technology to build the kind of temples and structures that date to 12-15,000 years ago, immediately following the recession of glaciers, is really hard to swallow. did they have the same brains as you and i today? yes. were they just as smart? yes. i just want somebody to build 1% of the pyramid at giza, with period material, and tools to the exact tolerances, in (1% of 20 years=.2 years) like 70 days. you insist on "where's the proof?" ok i'll bite---everywhere. not one culture that existed in ancient times has a creation story that does not speak of somebody (a deity or not- can of worms i'm not opening) coming down from above or up from below and bestowing knowledge, then going away. i'll offer this- prove it didn't happen-- the same arguments that a certain large group has been saying for hundreds of years>>backatchu. now all that stated i'll say again i have no certain belief one way or the other, but DO NOT accept the current model accepted by today's archaeologists concerning their time and dates for most of the real mysteries around the hotspots of the astronaut theory. you want to talk about the thousands of years, we had to make these things happen, hey cool i'll play time... in a universe billions of years old doesn't it seem UNlikely this little rock is the only place the perfect storm of amino acids, elements, and temperatures allowed life to exist? our galaxy alone has MILLIONS of stars, and there are millions of galaxies-that we know of. and who's to say for certain that any ancient visitations were from some distant planet or galaxy or whatever. our scientists are only at the beginning of dimensional sciences. other dimensions can be proven (this i saw on NOVA just last week) with math. maybe an alternate us came here. just saying. RE rebuttal, sir. this is fun!

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by basscooker

the mayans (and all ancient societies) used astronomical means to track time. the calculations, including precession, put their final baktun (a name for a period of time) in OUR calendar's date. not one single ancient society said hey the world is ending in 2012. they said there would be events happening in their eqivalent of what WE say is 2012. [and just rereading your post, i can see how you thought i was bringing in some kind of "something must be happening because the dates look cool" mentality to it all. no. the fact that on the modern gregorian calendar the vernal equinox end/winter solstice beginning next year happens to read 12/21/2012 is just a neat looking coincidence. i actually didn't understand the first sentence the first time i read it.. "numerology? who said that?" i guess you thought i did ]

what agriculture are you speaking of? earth came out of the ice age about 12,000 years ago, or more recently, depending on where, and we were living in caves for 30,000 years prior to that. the notion that ancient man had the technology to build the kind of temples and structures that date to 12-15,000 years ago, immediately following the recession of glaciers, is really hard to swallow. did they have the same brains as you and i today? yes. were they just as smart? yes. i just want somebody to build 1% of the pyramid at giza, with period material, and tools to the exact tolerances, in (1% of 20 years=.2 years) like 70 days. you insist on "where's the proof?" ok i'll bite---everywhere. not one culture that existed in ancient times has a creation story that does not speak of somebody (a deity or not- can of worms i'm not opening) coming down from above or up from below and bestowing knowledge, then going away. i'll offer this- prove it didn't happen-- the same arguments that a certain large group has been saying for hundreds of years>>backatchu. now all that stated i'll say again i have no certain belief one way or the other, but DO NOT accept the current model accepted by today's archaeologists concerning their time and dates for most of the real mysteries around the hotspots of the astronaut theory. you want to talk about the thousands of years, we had to make these things happen, hey cool i'll play time... in a universe billions of years old doesn't it seem UNlikely this little rock is the only place the perfect storm of amino acids, elements, and temperatures allowed life to exist? our galaxy alone has MILLIONS of stars, and there are millions of galaxies-that we know of. and who's to say for certain that any ancient visitations were from some distant planet or galaxy or whatever. our scientists are only at the beginning of dimensional sciences. other dimensions can be proven (this i saw on NOVA just last week) with math. maybe an alternate us came here. just saying. RE rebuttal, sir. this is fun!

Nothing you cited proves that someone came from space and taught humans. Nothing I say will probably change your mind. I certainly would not say that aliens could not have visited, I simply want some physical evidence that they were here.

[lucas vigor]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Nova did a show that showed Von Daniken and his whole "Ancient Astronaut" theory as presented in his books was a complete load of BS. Just one small example of the kind of fudging that was typical of his work, Daniken showed a close-up picture of a circle etched into the ground as a part of the drawings on the Plains of Nazca that he claimed was a marking for a landing pad for a UFO. The problem was he didn't bother to mention the circle was all of 3 feet in diameter, hardly large enough to act as a landing circle for anyhting but a toy spaceship. His entire stream of "evidence" was rife with these kind of discrepansies and downright attemptss to mislead. Nova was able to handily disprove every claim that Von Daniken made, as well as those who referred to him in their own bogus attempts to make the same claims using his falsified data.
Now this is not to say I don't believe in the possibility of life outside of our planet, I think it more likely than not, but to date there is no solid evidence to prove such, or that they have visited us, and to be sure Von Daniken and his "Chariots of the Gods" is decidedly not evidence of anything, other than people's gullibility.

+1000. Pretty much all "pseudo science" is bunk.

[Relic]

When I was a kid during the 70's, this sort of thing was all the rage so to speak. My brother and I used to voraciously read books about UFO's and ancient astronauts, watch TV shows (remember "In Search Of"??) and I 100% truly believed in it as well as ghosts and bigfoot and whatever else seemed bizarre and mysterious.
Unfortunately, as I got older I eventually started to realize that while fun as hell, it was all a load of hogwash. About the worst thing I ever did was "ghost hunting" I think that pretty much killed any belief in the "classic" paranormal once I came to the conclusion that such things do not exist.
That said, I've also come to believe that despite a fair amount of skepticism on my part, I think that the true universe is actually way beyond our comprehension but that's fodder for another thread...

[thumpbass1]

I don't buy it, because real scientific evidence isn't there for it. It also insults the intelligence, and hard work, and cleverness that ancient humans managed to accomplish, as is displayed by their works we still have present to this day. It's not to say that there aren't curious anomalies that show up time to time in terms of ancient artifacts, but I think that ancient humans were more clever and intuitive than we give them credit for.

[pacojas]

i believe!!!

only because of the things i have been blessed to witness.

things that are not scientifically proven have every right to be true. science was born of alchemy, which was born of witch-craft/ religion. if you are innately accute to your sixth sense,... you have seen and heard the truth!

i have seen and heard things that science disqualifies.

want proof,... then forget what you have been led to believe

mother used to say, " modern man has forgotten more than he has learned". she taught her children that no thing is impossible.

i have seen what most of you would never believe if you also saw. a classic case of brain wash/conditioning.

my heart goes out....

[BassChuck]

A way too large part of The History Channel's programing. Although its at its best when coupled with Nazis in some way. The proof is thin. Even at the speed of light there would have to be a lot of time spent traveling. And where did they go? My guess is that they have not returned because their funding was cut back home due to tax cuts.

Actually, a large part of believing in ancient aliens has to do with our ego not being able to accept that the ancient people of this planet had an intelligence equal to our own.