Why are "hot rods" faster than 20 years ago?

[Jim Nazium]

When I was in high school (actually 25+ years ago), I liked to work on cars - mostly American muscle cars. I remember it was a big, big deal if you could get your car to run a 12 second quarter mile. I also remember one of the car magazines had a cover story about a street legal car that could run in the 9's. This thing, while technically street legal, was clearly a purpose built race car - tube frame, gutted interior, fiberglass front end, huge blower, tiny radiator, etc. There's no way you could ever drive it anywhere but a drag strip.

So last night on TV, there's some game show where people try to guess how fast the cars will run. There were a couple of turbocharged imports that ran in the 10's that looked like they could be driven to work every day, and some guy had a '64 Ford with a single 4-barrel carb that ran in the 9's.

So what has changed? I guess computer-controlled fuel injection and spark timing would help a lot, but the big Ford wasn't running any of that.

Car peeps, clue me in.

[geeza]

Just a guess, but I'd bet today's cars are WAY lighter.

[Mark Latimour]

Lighter weight, better grip, better transfer of power from the engine to the drive train to the wheels, better fuel (more power), better engineering techniques allow higher performance engines to be made a cheaper prices.

One of my favourite things on top gear was when they had a Honda Accord race round a track compared to an Aston DB5 and a Jaguar E-Type. Not even close, the Accord clearly won over the two "Supercars" of the 60s.

[nortonrider]

Technology!
Dynos - multiple strip runs in a matter of minutes instead of all day

Computer aided tuning - remember when you actually had to get out of the car, open the hood and turn a screwdriver or wrench to adjust anything. now it's done by just hitting a key on the laptop sitting on the seat next to you.

tighter manufacturing tolerances - better materials, tighter specs, better tire compounds, ect.

[LaklandBass]

Good ol imports. Forced induction on a 4 cylinder motor in a car that weighs nothing = fast.

Also just technology in general. Better suspensions now allow the frames to be stiffer without compromising the ride qualities. This means more power transfered to the ground.

A great example of good engineering is the Nissan SR20DET motor. A 2.0 Liter 4 Cylinder engine that can hold 400whp on stock internals. Now consider that these are mostly found in rear drive nissans that weigh 1000 pounds less than a corvette.

[TrooperFarva]

I'd say that it mostly has to do with better understanding and easier computations of the science of engines. Sure, the Mustang was only running a 4 barrel carb, but I guarantee the intake manifold mixed the air and fuel much more completely than the 60s counterpart would have, not to mention the valve sizes, piston shapes, combustion chamber shapes, and the camshaft.

Back when, balancing and blueprinting an engine was rare, and made significant changes in how an engine performed, especially in how smooth it was. Nowadays, race motors are nearly all balanced and blueprinted, it's just a more common, standard practice.

[()smoke()]

20 years ago would be 1989, and as an example, we own an '89 GT mustang that was fast for it's day, with the stock 302 HO cubic inch engine...but not as fast as the 2006 GT we used to own with stock 280 cubic inch engine

the '89 is a lighter car, not heavier--most vehicles are much heavier today than 20 years ago, due to all the safety and luxury components, so cars aren't faster today because they're lighter, it's because the engine technology has allowed much more efficient power/volume ratios

chevy has engineered an amazing amount of power from small block ls pushrod engines, which is 'old' technology, just squeezed for every drop of efficiency...ford has taken another approach with overhead cam engines and gotten similar results, sometimes much better power/volume ratios than pushrod engines

all this being said, turbocharging a small engine in a small car will definitely produce results, but forced induction on a larger engine will produce even more extreme power, ie the new supercharged corvette putting aroung 700hp

[Chriss62]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

all this being said, turbocharging a small engine in a small car will definitely produce results, but forced induction on a larger engine will produce even more extreme power, ie the new supercharged corvette putting aroung 700hp

Drooling over the mere thought of the ZR1...

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

When I was in high school (actually 25+ years ago), I liked to work on cars - mostly American muscle cars. I remember it was a big, big deal if you could get your car to run a 12 second quarter mile. I also remember one of the car magazines had a cover story about a street legal car that could run in the 9's. This thing, while technically street legal, was clearly a purpose built race car - tube frame, gutted interior, fiberglass front end, huge blower, tiny radiator, etc. There's no way you could ever drive it anywhere but a drag strip.

So last night on TV, there's some game show where people try to guess how fast the cars will run. There were a couple of turbocharged imports that ran in the 10's that looked like they could be driven to work every day, and some guy had a '64 Ford with a single 4-barrel carb that ran in the 9's.

So what has changed? I guess computer-controlled fuel injection and spark timing would help a lot, but the big Ford wasn't running any of that.

Car peeps, clue me in.

the hot rod guys of yesteryear had to improvise more and got more performance out of their cars than todays bolt on crowd would have,given the same circumstances ..... a lot of the lessons learned along the way come right off the assembly line now .....

i see a lot of guys with tons of high priced bolt on stuff on cars without doing the actual engine work that allows engines to use all the extra air/fuel efficiently .....engines need to be designed and built from the inside out and any mods effect other areas and must be incorporated into the overall design

[billhilly66]

Same reason computers are.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

When I was in high school (actually 25+ years ago), I liked to work on cars - mostly American muscle cars. I remember it was a big, big deal if you could get your car to run a 12 second quarter mile. I also remember one of the car magazines had a cover story about a street legal car that could run in the 9's. This thing, while technically street legal, was clearly a purpose built race car - tube frame, gutted interior, fiberglass front end, huge blower, tiny radiator, etc. There's no way you could ever drive it anywhere but a drag strip.

So last night on TV, there's some game show where people try to guess how fast the cars will run. There were a couple of turbocharged imports that ran in the 10's that looked like they could be driven to work every day, and some guy had a '64 Ford with a single 4-barrel carb that ran in the 9's.

So what has changed? I guess computer-controlled fuel injection and spark timing would help a lot, but the big Ford wasn't running any of that.

Car peeps, clue me in.

Cylinder head, carburetor, camshaft and suspension/tire technology is worlds ahead of where it was 20+ years ago. It's natural evolution of the sport. Look at how much quicker Pro Stock, Funny Car and Top Fuel have gone in the last 10 years, while still being limited to the same (or sometimes tighter) rules.

The same thing has trickled down to the street car ranks. Back in Memphis in '93, Max Carter set the world on fire with an 8.38 pass from a 66 Nova. 500 something cubes, single 4 barrel and a nitrous setup. We showed up with our own car (82 Firebird) two years later running 8.50's, and got our asses handed to us by eventual winner Rod Saboury, who was running 7.50's with the only non nitroused and/or supercharged car at the event. Today Max's 8.38 or our 8.50 wouldn't even qualify us in the field.

[hbarcat]

Street rods are faster today for a whole list of reasons.

Computer controlled fuel injection and electronic ignition is just light years ahead of carburetors and mechanical distributors.

Some core engine components are readily available in great variety that weren't available or were hideously expensive in the past, such as dual pattern roller camshafts, aluminum heads, high flow (and street legal) exhaust systems, etc..

It's a lot easier and cheaper to do forced induction, whether it's supercharging, turbocharging or nitrous. The support community for this is around to help casual rodders make lots of useful power without breaking engines or making the car a pain to drive on the street.

Lots of parts are available in catalogs for relatively cheap that make cars lighter or will help them hook up better.




But you said some guy had a '64 Ford with a single 4-barrel carb that ran in the 9's.

That's the "brute force" approach to making power. Shove as much air and fuel through the engine as you possibly can with a huge cam and expensive engine components that can take the punishment. And that guy has to have a lot of experience dialing in a car to get it to get that power to the ground.

[Steve]

Better power to weight ratio.
Better transmissions.
Better tires.

[251]

Computers, timed fuel injection for each cylinder, improved air flow from intake to exhaust tip, variable ignition timing, improved suspension design, better competition driving schools, improved rubber rated for temperature & speed, better air filters (K&N fan here), better ignition wires, CAD/CAM designs for headers & exhaust

FWIW, was the 64 Ford a 427? pushing 800 bhp? That machine has always been fast! That's why Carroll Shelby used it so often.

8-)

[HollowBassman]

More money! More money = more power(to an extent)

[Munjibunga]

My wife's new car has a 3.5 liter V6 with 303 hp. My 1969 Road Runner had a 6.3 liter V8 with 335 hp. Better engine technology. (But that RR had mountains of torque on the low end that's missing in the rice burner.)

[Munjibunga]

My Uncle John's Ford has an 8,000 hp V8. It hauls.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by hbarcat

Some core engine components are readily available in great variety that weren't available or were hideously expensive in the past, such as dual pattern roller camshafts, aluminum heads, high flow (and street legal) exhaust systems, etc..

This is very true. One look at a Summit or Jegs catalog will verify this. You can even buy a crate engine for not alot of money that will offer incredible bang for the buck.

Examples-

1) 405 horsepower 383" Chevy for $2995.
2) 480 horsepower 496" Chevy for $5895.
3) 600 horsepower 383" Chevy for $5995.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by HollowBassman

More money! More money = more power(to an extent)

We've maintained for years it's cubic dollars and not cubic inches that make a car fly.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by Mike N

We've maintained for years it's cubic dollars and not cubic inches that make a car fly.

Isn't it air moving over and under the wings at diffeernt speed that make something fly?