why are these mass murders on the rise?

[steve_rolfeca]

Handguns are just the current weapon of choice. I think overall culture is the main problem, more so than the availability of guns.

The US has a massive lead in the developed world, when it comes to all types of murder. No answers, just an observation

[Relic]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Norway, 77 killed IIRC.

"or wherever" indeed

It's certainly a bigger issue in the US than in most of the developed world.

It is.
I know I'm just repeating myself here (sorry!)but I still do not think it's 100% a matter of "guns". (not saying that you are claiming that)
I would also take a serious look at the mental health aspect.
So many of these shooters are described as having "some sort of issues" that it makes me wonder what the hell is going on.
The guns have allowed these nuts to do what they did, but it didn't make them do what they did. And if we were to right this moment ban every gun, it would make about the same difference banning drugs does to the drug trade. Almost none...
This is why I feel we need to take a more serious look at how we're approaching mental health care and how we deal with folks with 'issues" rather than eliminating guns. Something's broken.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Norway, 77 killed IIRC.

"or wherever" indeed

It's certainly a bigger issue in the US than in most of the developed world.

I only used those numbers and "wherever" because I didn't see the story I was looking for- I'm using a different computer and don't have all of the search engines set up the way they are on my normal one (power supply took a dump last night).

We have more of these problems because we have freedoms that are abused. People have been cajoled into thinking they can do anything, without consequences. When I was talking with the client yesterday, I mentioned that we used to be shocked by much less than what it takes, now. Used to be that a garage break-in was big news in the neighborhood. Now, we just say that the victim didn't secure it well enough. One shooting used to make people wonder when it will end and now, we just "pffft!" and move on.

People who shouldn't have access to deadly force weapons aren't being stopped. Yes, cars & trucks, baseball bats, knives, bottles, sticks and other things can be used but it's easier to do it from a distance.

[SolarMan]

It isn't about guns!

I'm giving you the answer!

Slow down everyone, PLEASE!

Learn about what I am trying to show you and spread the word.

I'm going to repost my last post to make you guys read it!

Originally Posted by SolarMan

These mass-murder and then suicide killers are on the rise. Prozac came out in December 1987.

It isn't the media - crimes on this scale have commanded the airways since live TV was invented. What you don't see Nationally is when a kid with a serotonin soaked brain just kills his best friend or only 1 teacher, or maybe blew his brains out in front of his classmates.

There are very few of these mass-murderer then suicide killers that are NOT on these drugs.

A brain revved up on serotonin is an alpha-oriented brain. A leader. Not a follower. It is capable of amazing things, both wonderful and horrible.

Just google "mass murderer prozac" - and look at what you get. This is not a theory, it is for real.

If you want to understand this a little better, watch this video:

http://www.dailypaul.com/246031/vide...ris-connection

The media want's to talk guns instead of the real problem here.

I think we need to talk about the real problem.

And, I guarantee we find out this punk was on an SSRI, but you won't hear it on National TV - that is for sure!

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Relic

It is.
I know I'm just repeating myself here (sorry!)but I still do not think it's 100% a matter of "guns". (not saying that you are claiming that)
I would also take a serious look at the mental health aspect.
So many of these shooters are described as having "some sort of issues" that it makes me wonder what the hell is going on.
The guns have allowed these nuts to do what they did, but it didn't make them do what they did. And if we were to right this moment ban every gun, it would make about the same difference banning drugs does to the drug trade. Almost none...
This is why I feel we need to take a more serious look at how we're approaching mental health care and how we deal with folks with 'issues" rather than eliminating guns. Something's broken.

I'm certainly not saying it's only guns. It's an issue with multiple sides. If you were able to magically remove all the guns in the US, things like this might not happen, but as you say, it isn't tackling the underlying social issue.

Before people turn and flame, I'm in no manner having a go here, simply noting an observation, but the most disturbing thing I've noticed in my trips to the US (likewise with many others who jump the pond a few times) is the amount of people on the streets who are clearly very mentally disturbed. It's something you just don't see on that level in Europe.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by SolarMan

It isn't about guns!

I'm giving you the answer!

Slow down everyone, PLEASE!

Learn about what I am trying to show you and spread the word.

I'm going to repost my last post to make you guys read it!

Yeah, Big Pharma, those evils.

[Floyd Eye]

They are not in fact on the rise. What is on the rise is media whores cashing in on scaring the crap out of people who are all too willing to look at things from their own slanted POV rather than to objectively research societal problems. My advice is to turn off your TV, or better yet, kick it through the wall and start lobbying your elected officials to do something about the epidemic levels in which mentally unstable people in this country are left untreated. I know mommy wants to protect you, little corn nut head, but you are seriously unstable and you need to be in an institution designed to unscramble your eggs.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

I'm certainly not saying it's only guns. It's an issue with multiple sides. If you were able to magically remove all the guns in the US, things like this might not happen, but as you say, it isn't tackling the underlying social issue.

Before people turn and flame, I'm in no manner having a go here, simply noting an observation, but the most disturbing thing I've noticed in my trips to the US (likewise with many others who jump the pond a few times) is the amount of people on the streets who are clearly very mentally disturbed. It's something you just don't see on that level in Europe.

I absolutely, 100% agree with you on that. It's an observation that I've made as well.
This is exactly what I mean when I say that I think something's "broken" here in that area.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Relic

I absolutely, 100% agree with you on that. It's an observation that I've made as well.
This is exactly what I mean when I say that I think something's "broken" here in that area.

I think it's a visual illustration of how mental illnesses are handled (or mishandled). There's obviously a lot going on behind closed doors to, but it certainly fuels the stigma people have.

[SolarMan]

Originally Posted by Relic

It is.
I know I'm just repeating myself here (sorry!)but I still do not think it's 100% a matter of "guns". (not saying that you are claiming that)
I would also take a serious look at the mental health aspect.
So many of these shooters are described as having "some sort of issues" that it makes me wonder what the hell is going on.
The guns have allowed these nuts to do what they did, but it didn't make them do what they did. And if we were to right this moment ban every gun, it would make about the same difference banning drugs does to the drug trade. Almost none...
This is why I feel we need to take a more serious look at how we're approaching mental health care and how we deal with folks with 'issues" rather than eliminating guns. Something's broken.

In America we have implemented something called "deinstutionalization" - meaning that we won't keep people locked up if they are at all capable of managing on their own. And with budget cuts, State funded mental hospitals are closing down - forcing many into the community that are borderline / dysfunctional.

This is a liberal stance in a perverted sort of way. We give them more by giving them less.

But, this has nothing to do with younger people on SSRI's killing their girlfriends (without a gun), and teachers (without a gun), and thier friends (without a gun), and their mother (without a gun), and themselves

Let's not confuse this type of crime with any mass murder crime. Planting a bomb and killing dozens with the goal of "getting away" is an entirely different animal.

And a suicide bomber is different too.

These people kill first, and then kill themselves


The problem doesn't end there. Mom or Dad offing themselves after their shrink put them on SSRI's because of a death in the family or losing a job...that never makes the news either.

[spade2you]

Further proof that doctors kill more people than guns. ...er wait.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Further proof that doctors kill more people than guns. ...er wait.

Actually, they do. Prescription drugs kill 290 people per DAY in the US. That's over 100,000 people per year.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Actually, they do. Prescription drugs kill 290 people per DAY in the US. That's over 100,000 people per year.

And that is only one aspect of it. Add in the cases of malpractice and misdiagnosis and that number increases significantly.

[HaMMerHeD]

Before we talk about gun control, let's talk about tobacco control.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

They are not in fact on the rise. What is on the rise is media whores cashing in on scaring the crap out of people who are all too willing to look at things from their own slanted POV rather than to objectively research societal problems. My advice is to turn off your TV, or better yet, kick it through the wall and start lobbying your elected officials to do something about the epidemic levels in which mentally unstable people in this country are left untreated. I know mommy wants to protect you, little corn nut head, but you are seriously unstable and you need to be in an institution designed to unscramble your eggs.

+1

What is emerging as a far worse plague is social media.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

+1

What is emerging as a far worse plague is social media.

Absolutely.

[SolarMan]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

Before we talk about gun control, let's talk about tobacco control.

Yes. But 2 problems.

#1) There is no sympathy from the general public for a person that dies from smoking related illness.

#2) The State and Federal governments are addicted to the money they get from nicotine addicts.

(Even if in the end they lose money by paying for people dying from cigarrettes)

If they ban it? It goes undergroud creating a whole new class of criminal - the cigarrette dealer - ending up in prison with us paying his dime. And with less taxes to pay for more criminals.

blah, blah, blah...

- so the subject is SSRI's - Drugs that can kill you even if you aren't the one taking them -

I'm talking about a drug that can kill you or your child or your whole family - without you ever even knowing what it is!

[i_got_a_mohawk]

If the majority of people who are mentally unstable are on some form of medication, and the majority of people who commit these crimes are mentally unstable, the cause must be the medication. Not, for instance, the fact they were mentally unstable in the first place?

The subject isn't SSRI's, it's a loaded subject YOU are trying to introduce to the debate. Also, your belief that these are the cause, doesn't make it a fact, as you implied through your 'having the answer'.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Actually, they do. Prescription drugs kill 290 people per DAY in the US. That's over 100,000 people per year.

That was part of the pun. I was also indirectly implying that physicians are now indirectly responsible for the gun violence as well.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

If the majority of people who are mentally unstable are on some form of medication, and the majority of people who commit these crimes are mentally unstable, the cause must be the medication. Not, for instance, the fact they were mentally unstable in the first place?

The subject isn't SSRI's, it's a loaded subject YOU are trying to introduce to the debate. Also, your belief that these are the cause, doesn't make it a fact, as you implied through your 'having the answer'.

I agree. I don't really think SSRIs have a significant impact either way. Given that a good chunk of my patients have a mental health issue or two, all the drugs in the world and they're still unstable. Generally, they're a little more stable if we get the drug combo and doses right, provided they continue to take these meds. They often don't.