Why are young people blamed for the current state of music?

[johndough247]

First OT thread, hope this wasn't discussed ad naseum (prolly was but aww well).

I was just thinking about how people around my generation and younger (i'm 26) seem to always be blamed for the current state of the music industry. However if you really stop and think about it, who let us in the door?

Sure the guys that scout for new talent for the big labels may be around my age range, but the majority of producers/engineers and record execs are typically older, anywhere from mid 30's go up...lets not even talk bout those in the upper echelons of the industry (CEO/presidents/owners of the big labels an top radio stations who would have (I would imagine) the ultimate say as to who represents their label/company.

There's always been crappy artists and the general public always had questionable taste in music; the only thing that changed IMO is that we're giving them a hall pass due to shock factor, "marketability" and auto-tune....What happened to record labels setting the standard for what amazing musicians should sound like? Just curious about everyone else's view on this.

[MatticusMania]

Actually, the current state of music should be blamed, indirectly, on the 12-20 year olds, as its their taste that dictates what gets marketed and aired. I say indirectly, because its people much older than they running this for profit machine.

[Roscoe East]

Do a search on the demographics of music buyers; notice the disproportionate number of music buyers in the 10-20 age group versus, say, 40-60.

Kids' tastes determine what sells.

[cjmodulus]

Originally Posted by Roscoe East

Do a search on the demographics of music buyers; notice the disproportionate number of music buyers in the 10-20 age group versus, say, 40-60.

Kids' tastes determine what sells.

While this is true, I don't think it's fair to blame all of us (not in any way stating that you are, but it seems like sometimes people do).
I'm 16, and the majority of my peers have (IMO) horrible taste in music. Basically, it's everything at the top of the iTunes charts.
But a good deal of them also listen to some great classic rock too, and I have friends (non musicians) who even listen to classical music.
And while our age demographic might be a primary target for the music industry, one can't ignore the people in the industry who are responsible for marketing the music to us. A lot of issues with the younger generation's taste in Music have to do with the actions/previous trends of previous generations. That not to say we don't have our share of the responsibility, but (IMO) we're not the only ones to blame.

[cjmodulus]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Actually, the current state of music should be blamed, indirectly, on the 12-20 year olds, as its their taste that dictates what gets marketed and aired. I say indirectly, because its people much older than they running this for profit machine.

+10000

[Simo98]

The current state of music is great. You just need to look outside the mainstream pop crap, but with the entire world at your fingertips finding great lesser known music and spreading it around the globe has never been easier.

[Muaguana]

Originally Posted by Simo98

The current state of music is great. You just need to look outside the mainstream pop crap, but with the entire world at your fingertips finding great lesser known music and spreading it around the globe has never been easier.

Agreed. The people who complain about the "current state" of music pay too much attention to what sells in today's market rather than what's actually out there - and if you look, you'll find plenty of great, original and innovative music being made. Look outside the US and you'll find even more (my favorite being the Swedish avant-garde metal group, Diablo Swing Orchestra.)

[Fassa Albrecht]

TBH there's always been manufactured and 'bad' music, right from the 50s and onwards. In the 90s people were whinging about Britney and the Backstreet Boys ruining music. In the 80s people were complaining that Madonna was ruining music. In the 70s people likely found the equivalents to complain about.

And you're in a better situation than ever to do something about it. The internet makes finding the music YOU want to hear easier than ever before. All it takes is a little searching and viola, you've found something.


I'd never have discovered Anekdoten, Anglagard or Sanningens Silverflod (Swedish prog bands) otherwise.

[StyleOverShow]

Pop music has always been for the mass appeal. Most of us have an emotional attachment to some era and genre.

Heard Seth MacFarlane, The Family Guy, singing like Sinatra last night. Not my genre but well done, nonetheless.

[johndough247]

Originally Posted by MatticusMania

Actually, the current state of music should be blamed, indirectly, on the 12-20 year olds, as its their taste that dictates what gets marketed and aired. I say indirectly, because its people much older than they running this for profit machine.

I understand what you're saying about record sales, but who consistently signs, records, evaluates and then puts out the subpar musical acts out there for the 12 - 20 year olds to choose from (and often times promote them WAY harder than much more talented (yea I know, IMO) individuals who are also on the same label)? It's not a panel of 12 - 20 year olds doing this decision making.

Originally Posted by Muaguana

Agreed. The people who complain about the "current state" of music pay too much attention to what sells in today's market rather than what's actually out there - and if you look, you'll find plenty of great, original and innovative music being made. Look outside the US and you'll find even more (my favorite being the Swedish avant-garde metal group, Diablo Swing Orchestra.)

I know where to find good music, i'm not concerned about myself at all.

The reason why I (can't speak for anyone else) pay "too much attention" to the US music industry because IMO it's the most biggest and most influential market. That influence trickles down to the youth of several countries who then believe this is what "good" music should sound like, and most things not fitting into that mold sucks. IME Kids tend to latch on to whatever TV and radio tells them is good/cool, and summarily reject anything else suggested by less "influential" parties or those not in the IN crowd (a.k.a myself for example haha).

I've experienced this first hand cause I'm a High School music teacher teaching outside of the US; the vast majority of my students (i'm talking 80 - 90% easily, and I teach about 12 classes every school year, about 5 students per class) could care less about anything that came out before 2000 (they sometimes tolerate 90's stuff, and one or two 80's tracks, but beyond that... :-S ), but go crazy over anything usually on the overall top 10 in iTunes (not saying the top 10 is always subpar, btw). You then waste your breath TRYING to convince these teens that Lil Wayne, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, etc were actually influenced by the old music they've labelled as crap.

My point is, present the kids with a pop group of say the Jackson 5's caliber for example (i.e. can sing really well WITHOUT autotune, plays instruments, etc) and promote that group EQUALLY with the type of groups currently pushed today. Groups like these exist, I see them all the time, around me and online. The record company already decided that we'd rather the easy road (pretty face, has a voice we can "fix") than the road of quality, substance and longevity...can we really blame the kids when the labels already chose for them?

[XtheDeadPawn]

We are blamed because we helped make "this" state of music profitable. Simply put we buy the most music out of everyone so the big wigs concentrate on what we buy so they can sell more of it.

I admit to helping them abit but, Shakira, Avril, and Kelly Clarkson are sooo worth it.
Lady Gaga though can go to Hell. I take that back I work there and don't want to see her all day.

[IAmTheWalrus]

Originally Posted by johndough247

...we'd rather the easy road (pretty face, has a voice we can "fix") than the road of quality, substance and longevity...

While this may or may not contribute to the discussion I have noticed that in the past thirty or so years there have been less and less unattractive "musicians" (Granted I'm 20 so really my only experience of pre-90's music beyond my parents/older siblings is the internet). I use the term "unattractive" somewhat loosely, as in my age group think the Maroon 5 guy is "hot" as opposed to say Mick Jagger or Katy Perry > Stevie Nicks. But from all the people I've asked on this subject (young and old alike) the general consensus seems to be that the further back you go the less likely you were to say "____ is a hot piece of a**", male and female musicians alike

Another thing I've noticed in mainstream music is that less and less people play instruments. It's all done on computers now outside of a few mainstream rock bands

[Actium]

I think the state of music is better than ever. Thanks to the internet you can find out about bands you otherwise would have never heard of.

[Muaguana]

Originally Posted by johndough247

I know where to find good music, i'm not concerned about myself at all.

The reason why I (can't speak for anyone else) pay "too much attention" to the US music industry because IMO it's the most biggest and most influential market. That influence trickles down to the youth of several countries who then believe this is what "good" music should sound like, and most things not fitting into that mold sucks. IME Kids tend to latch on to whatever TV and radio tells them is good/cool, and summarily reject anything else suggested by less "influential" parties or those not in the IN crowd (a.k.a myself for example haha).

I've experienced this first hand cause I'm a High School music teacher teaching outside of the US; the vast majority of my students (i'm talking 80 - 90% easily, and I teach about 12 classes every school year, about 5 students per class) could care less about anything that came out before 2000 (they sometimes tolerate 90's stuff, and one or two 80's tracks, but beyond that... :-S ), but go crazy over anything usually on the overall top 10 in iTunes (not saying the top 10 is always subpar, btw). You then waste your breath TRYING to convince these teens that Lil Wayne, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, etc were actually influenced by the old music they've labelled as crap.

My point is, present the kids with a pop group of say the Jackson 5's caliber for example (i.e. can sing really well WITHOUT autotune, plays instruments, etc) and promote that group EQUALLY with the type of groups currently pushed today. Groups like these exist, I see them all the time, around me and online. The record company already decided that we'd rather the easy road (pretty face, has a voice we can "fix") than the road of quality, substance and longevity...can we really blame the kids when the labels already chose for them?

You can't control people's taste. If they want to like something, even if it's because of a type of indoctrination through the mass media, they'll like it. I think most of your students already had their mind made up when they entered your class, and left with the same opinions. The logic of old musicians influencing the new, even creating the new, won't make someone change their taste in music regardless of how true it is. It's just how people are; either they'll come to appreciate and enjoy the older generations of music, or they won't.

As far as the industry "choosing" music for the masses, I think it's a bit more complex than that. Industries react to the culture and trends of society, and they also influence said culture and trends. The bottom line is, these artists wouldn't have been marketed if the record label executives didn't think there was an audience for it. I'm not saying blame the kids, I'm saying you can't place "blame" on any one entity, because it's not as black and white as you make it sound.

And regarding "fixing" voices... audio engineers (in this sense) are concerned with one thing and one thing only: perfecting the presentation of musical ideas in the context of their genre/market/demographic/etc. Auto-tune and elastic audio were simply tools to make this end easier. Eventually they became more powerful tools, and fixing simple errors in a performance became perfecting every note. And now, that "standard" of audio perfection (perfect pitch, perfect rhythm) has become predominant in today's over-produced music industry. Again, it's not black and white. Who can say how much use of these tools is "going too far" and ruins the artistic merit of a performance? You can ask a million people that question and get a million different responses.

[hbarcat]

Because people older than 30 aren't putting out original music anymore - they're too old!

People younger than 30 are putting out all the original music so it must be their fault.

[johndough247]

Originally Posted by Muaguana

You can't control people's taste. If they want to like something, even if it's because of a type of indoctrination through the mass media, they'll like it. I think most of your students already had their mind made up when they entered your class, and left with the same opinions. The logic of old musicians influencing the new, even creating the new, won't make someone change their taste in music regardless of how true it is. It's just how people are; either they'll come to appreciate and enjoy the older generations of music, or they won't.

Fair enough...but whyyyyy? LOL kidding

As far as the industry "choosing" music for the masses, I think it's a bit more complex than that. Industries react to the culture and trends of society, and they also influence said culture and trends. The bottom line is, these artists wouldn't have been marketed if the record label executives didn't think there was an audience for it. I'm not saying blame the kids, I'm saying you can't place "blame" on any one entity, because it's not as black and white as you make it sound.

Well that's kinda my point in a sense, I was kinda going against the whole "this generation is the cause of the "downfall" of music today", just trying to suggest that there's more to "blame" than just the spending habits of the young. Sorry if it seemed like I was solely blaming the other side of the fence, just pointing out the other side of the coin so to speak.

And regarding "fixing" voices... audio engineers (in this sense) are concerned with one thing and one thing only: perfecting the presentation of musical ideas in the context of their genre/market/demographic/etc. Auto-tune and elastic audio were simply tools to make this end easier. Eventually they became more powerful tools, and fixing simple errors in a performance became perfecting every note. And now, that "standard" of audio perfection (perfect pitch, perfect rhythm) has become predominant in today's over-produced music industry. Again, it's not black and white. Who can say how much use of these tools is "going too far" and ruins the artistic merit of a performance? You can ask a million people that question and get a million different responses.

Oh i'm very much familiar with the audio engineer's perspective (being one myself), and I've used it on artists to touch up one or two notes that may have missed the mark...the "abuse" (again, subjective) I'm talking about is when you can very audibly (well, to my ears) hear Autotune on vocals throughout the entire track, and presented in the context of...
"hey, this is a great singer"
and not
"hey, this is a rapper pretending to be a singer".

Even though #2 bugs me a bit as well, I can let that slide based on context, cause everyone can hear "hey, that's a computer effect...he prolly can't sing for s#!^". However, scenario #1 bugs me more because people who don't have an ear for the subtle application of pitch correction will go the extra mile to argue that this singer is way better than one from the early days when they hit the notes without technological help. I know I can't change people, their taste or their hearing capabilities...this is just a rant, that's all...isn't that the unofficial purpose of OT?

[Simo98]

Originally Posted by johndough247

My point is, present the kids with a pop group of say the Jackson 5's caliber for example (i.e. can sing really well WITHOUT autotune, plays instruments, etc) and promote that group EQUALLY with the type of groups currently pushed today. Groups like these exist, I see them all the time, around me and online. The record company already decided that we'd rather the easy road (pretty face, has a voice we can "fix") than the road of quality, substance and longevity...can we really blame the kids when the labels already chose for them?

Exactly, not going to happen. Decent musicians are in it for the music, and they want to make the music they want to make, or at least have some creative input. Its much easier to find an attractive idiot and sculpt them to be the perfect CD selling publicity machine you want.

And yes, you can blame the kids. I am one of them, and I do blame them. Sure, the big companies have seen a vunerable market and exploited it to the max, and they are just kids and you can't really blame them for being easily manipulated, but at the end of the day it is the individual who needs to make the decision not to buy the crap. Seems most people these days are just happy to be told what to like and what to do, and are incapable of making their own decisions or taking responsibility and control of their own life, and the problem goes far beyond just music in my opinion, but that is another discussion altogether.


It's a collaborative effort between the companies and media who influence the kids, and the kids for not having a mind of their own. Although to be honest its probably the result of parents decisions more often than not. Teach your kids to be an individual and make up their own mind about things, rather than just drilling into them to obey and do as they are told without actually thinking about it. If you raise your kids to be an obedience machine as some parents do, don't be surprised when your kids follow the instructions of the record companies and go out and buy whatever crap they have decided to churn out this week.

[Musiclogic]

MP3's, computer based everything, and the market. Why are kids to blame? they do nothing to support the industry. Buying Mp3's...yeah great, musicians only make money off what is deemed popular instead of off album sales. Great for the listener, very bad for the musician, so it became all about look and much less about talent. Instead of learning to play an instrument, and form a band, and work to write complete songs, they buy Home studio in a box, and a couple of loop programs, and voila they are Justin Bieber.

Why do the 60's 70's and 80's bands still sell out Arena tours worldwide, and most of the popular groups from this generation can barely sell out a rock club or small concert theater at best. Kids do not support the music anymore, unless there is a video game attached.

Also, something that is being misrepresented is the music industry. Who is signing the acts? same people that were back in the 70's 80's or 90's. Generally the under 35 group, and usually under 30 these days. What we used to call A&R men in the 70's and 80's are the young talent reps for all of these music subsidiaries doing the talent acquisitioin. Yep, those that have grown up with rap and grunge are signing talent. Same group of people that are re-making every 80's movie, 70's tv show, and 60's commercials because they have never had an original idea in their lives.

Yep, the internet can bring you to scads of indie bands all over the world, but you know what, most people who "work" for a living, don't have the time to search for decent music for hours and hours.

Being someone who made my living for 14 years as a professional musician, this is my opinion from my vantage point, and nothing more.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Simo98

The current state of music is great. You just need to look outside the mainstream pop crap, but with the entire world at your fingertips finding great lesser known music and spreading it around the globe has never been easier.

Bingo. Music is better now than I think it's ever been and that trend will only continue. 20 years ago I sure as hell couldn't find great music from other countries and have it in a matter of minutes. Not to say there isn't great music right here because there is plenty, but that level of access has taken music allowed music to become this big, fantastic melting pot. I love it.

[madmatt]

I would say blame it on the oppressed state of our society right now.
Living in an oppressed state of mind kills creativity.