WikiLeaks.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Anyone else use it?

For me, I find the access to all these documents to be utterly fascinating--and, it must be said, having the ability to peruse these documents at leisure is brilliant.

Not to mention it is a great tool to examine the differences between the public and private faces of the government and the military--and, IMO, accountability and transparency are always good things.

Of course, the discussion about what is public information and what is private information is certainly a heated one. For what its worth, something like 350,000 people in the United States have top security clearance right now... I figure if you're already letting that many people know who really shot Kennedy, the rest of us should get at least a hint or two.

So, any other WikiLeaks out here in the murky OT waters?

[iamlowsound]

Some of the stuff is interesting, I like the access, but I do believe that there should be some stuff that not everyone should have access to. Side note, the founder/owner is being investigated by the Swedish police for rape.

lowsound

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

Some of the stuff is interesting, I like the access, but I do believe that there should be some stuff that not everyone should have access to. Side note, the founder/owner is being investigated by the Swedish police for rape.

lowsound

Apparently they dropped that prety quickly:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316

[hover]

you cannot seriously contend that we are not already getting the whole, unbiased truth from regular media outlets....




neat site.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

I like the access, but I do believe that there should be some stuff that not everyone should have access to.
lowsound

So where's the line?

Originally Posted by hover

you cannot seriously contend that we are not already getting the whole, unbiased truth from regular media outlets....




neat site.

I know, what a novel concept.

I'm kind of hoping for someone who has a different perspective to chime in, but I don't know if anyone really has a gripe with freedom of information.

[ADbassman]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Of course, the discussion about what is public information and what is private information is certainly a heated one. For what its worth, something like 350,000 people in the United States have top security clearance right now... I figure if you're already letting that many people know who really shot Kennedy, the rest of us should get at least a hint or two.

Speaking as one of the 350,000 people who has a TS SCI clearance, that's not exactly how it works. I can't just look up who shot Kennedy. I can't even look at Wikileaks on a government computer because I'm not authorized to view that kind of information.

My opinion, releasing that kind of information puts a lot of people at risk. Information is classified for a reason, usually worded something to effect of "This information can cause grave harm to the country or it's military operations if released" It has nothing to do with transparency, it has everything to do with operational security and mission success.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

Speaking as one of the 350,000 people who has a TS SCI clearance, that's not exactly how it works. I can't just look up who shot Kennedy. I can't even look at Wikileaks on a government computer because I'm not authorized to view that kind of information.

Wait a minute, you've got TS SCI clearance, and you can't look up who shot Kennedy? What the hell can you look at??

My opinion, releasing that kind of information puts a lot of people at risk. Information is classified for a reason, usually worded something to effect of "This information can cause grave harm to the country or it's military operations if released" It has nothing to do with transparency, it has everything to do with operational security and mission success.

Now, the ethical dilemma-is it worse for the nation if our military/government's information is publicly accessible, or is it worse for the nation if we are kept in the dark about these things?

[ADbassman]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Wait a minute, you've got TS SCI clearance, and you can't look up who shot Kennedy? What the hell can you look at??


Now, the ethical dilemma-is it worse for the nation if our military/government's information is publicly accessible, or is it worse for the nation if we are kept in the dark about these things?

What ethical dilemma? Military operations don't work so well if all your "secret" information is publicly available where anybody who wishes to do harm can access it. That's just stupid. Information is classified for a reason, it's not some grand conspiracy to keep the public in the dark about the goings-on in the world.

[ADbassman]

And btw, a trip to Dallas will tell you who shot Kennedy. There's no conspiracy there.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

What ethical dilemma? Military operations don't work so well if all your "secret" information is publicly available where anybody who wishes to do harm can access it. That's just stupid. Information is classified for a reason, it's not some grand conspiracy to keep the public in the dark about the goings-on in the world.

But its not necessarily only secret information about military maneuvers. For example, I recently read a CIA Red Cell report from February, talking about what might happen if our country was seen as an exporter of terrorists/terrorism:
From the start of the report:

Much attention has been paid recently to the increasing occurrence of American-grown Islamic terrorists conducting attacks against US targets, primarily in the homeland. Less attention has been paid to homegrown terrorism, not exclusively Muslim terrorists, exported overseas to target non-
US persons. This report examines the implications of what it would mean for the US to be seen increasingly as an incubator and “exporter of terrorism.”

Another tidbit:

’Contrary to common belief, the American export of terrorism or terrorists is not a recent phenomenon, nor has it been associated only with Islamic radicals or people of Middle Eastern, African or South Asian ethnic origin. This dynamic belies the American belief that our free, open and integrated multicultural society lessens the allure of radicalism and terrorism for US citizens."

Now, I find this report (and others of its ilk) to be intellectually stimulating, eye opening, and generally interesting at a level that is so above and beyond anything you might find on the regular news that to go back would be like a return to masterbation after sex with a supermodel.

Beyond that, I'd be at a loss to find any information in that article that directly impacted our military's ability to act.
(for anyone who might be interested, you can find the article here: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/CIA_Red_Ce...22,_2_Feb_2010 )

Originally Posted by ADbassman

And btw, a trip to Dallas will tell you who shot Kennedy. There's no conspiracy there.

Maybe tongue in cheek doesn't work so well over the internet.

[Horny Toad]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

... would be like a return to masterbation after sex with a supermodel.....

Masturbation would be enhanced due to the amazing supermodel imagery/experience added to your spank bank. Just sayin'

[ADbassman]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Now, I find this report (and others of its ilk) to be intellectually stimulating, eye opening, and generally interesting at a level that is so above and beyond anything you might find on the regular news that to go back would be like a return to masterbation after sex with a supermodel.

Beyond that, I'd be at a loss to find any information in that article that directly impacted our military's ability to act.
(for anyone who might be interested, you can find the article here: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/CIA_Red_Ce...22,_2_Feb_2010 )



Maybe tongue in cheek doesn't work so well over the internet.

If you're looking for stimulation information, the news is the wrong place to look. Read a book, particularly history. That'll give you more of a perspective on current events than any news outlet will.

While I can't be certain (since I can't access wikileaks and all), I'd wager that article was confidential at best. Information is ranked based on the amount of harm it can potentially do if put in the wrong hands. You don't think that a terrorist reading a government assessment of home grown terrrorism won't make the terrorist go "Hey, that's a pretty good idea."

Classified information doesn't have to be physical military information like troop movements or location of enemy assets. A lot of it may be classified (probably like that article) simply because of the channels it goes through. If I had a dollar for all the inane stuff I analyzed, I'd be rich. Is it still classified? You bet.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

If you're looking for stimulation information, the news is the wrong place to look. Read a book, particularly history. That'll give you more of a perspective on current events than any news outlet will.

I'm actually finishing up A Bright Shining Lie as we speak.

While I can't be certain (since I can't access wikileaks and all), I'd wager that article was confidential at best. Information is ranked based on the amount of harm it can potentially do if put in the wrong hands. You don't think that a terrorist reading a government assessment of home grown terrrorism won't make the terrorist go "Hey, that's a pretty good idea."

I don't think that it would enhance any ideas that they wouldn't have already had.

Then again, I'm not a terrorist, so I might be wrong.

Classified information doesn't have to be physical military information like troop movements or location of enemy assets. A lot of it may be classified (probably like that article) simply because of the channels it goes through. If I had a dollar for all the inane stuff I analyzed, I'd be rich. Is it still classified? You bet.

But if it is inane, what's the point in keeping it from the public?

[P. Aaron]

One of the tricky things about intelligence and especially 'spy' networks is that they are used to collect information and rarely is that info used in a way that can expose the data collection's path.

I recommend to any of you read the book: Venona. We had broken bits of the Soviet code before WWII and had decades of data collected that confirmed many things that were (if you're in college today, still) publicly debated as to their veracity.

Wikileaks doesn't just expose data. It puts people's lives at risk who have given valuable information. It also works against a country's ability to establish and maintain spy networks if the sources feel they won't be protected.

It's odd that some who applaud CIA, or NSA 'whistleblowers' here at home have no problem putting foreigner's lives at risk either.

[Doctor J]

Is anyone else a little disturbed by how the machinations of the west are slowly trying to squeeze the site out of existence? Foreign banks, credit card companies, even DNS records erased to try to prevent you from seeing this stuff. Try the address and you won't get in anymore, you have to use the IP address.

http://213.251.145.96/

Sinister stuff.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by ADbassman

My opinion, releasing that kind of information puts a lot of people at risk. Information is classified for a reason, usually worded something to effect of "This information can cause grave harm to the country or it's military operations if released" It has nothing to do with transparency, it has everything to do with operational security and mission success.

+1. While it's neat to be able to eavesdrop for our own enjoyment, others with far more nefarious plans eavesdrop as well.
I'd love a world where it didn't matter - but we don't live in the world last I checked.

[basstotheface]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

Is anyone else a little disturbed by how the machinations of the west are slowly trying to squeeze the site out of existence? Foreign banks, credit card companies, even DNS records erased to try to prevent you from seeing this stuff. Try the address and you won't get in anymore, you have to use the IP address.

http://213.251.145.96/

Sinister stuff.

Sorry to say it but, good riddance. That thing is nothing but trouble.

[Doctor J]

How, exactly?

[HEIST]

I love wikileaks.

[basstotheface]

I wish I could say something and feel original, but everything I would say has been said by ADbassman.

Things are classified for a reason, it is dangerous for everyone to have information like that out there for the public to see.