This is Wild!

[Dr. Cheese]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/wo...france.html?hp

I have a hard time believing this is happening.

[hbarcat]

I like how the adverts on the side are about Steven Hawking and his time displacement theories.

[MJ5150]

-Mike

[IconBasser]

... why do the Americans have him? Is he a US citizen?

[Selta]

Probably because he's accused of a crime committed on US soil.

[Jazz Ad]

Like anyone needed proof that French people give themselves too much credit.
To US citizens he's just the average bozo.
To French people he's a potential candidate for the upcoming elections and the president of a worldwide money fund.
It's been all over the news all day long, to the point of craziness. Nobody should be surprised, he's had issues with sexual assaults in the past.
Also French people aren't used to the way the US Police deals with potential criminals.
And of course, it has to be a conspiracy. From the right, USA, FBI, extreme right, people who hate the French, people who want his seat and a bazillion others.
I still don't know if I find the whole thing pitiful or funny as hell.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Like anyone needed proof that French people give themselves too much credit.
To US citizens he's just the average bozo.
To French people he's a potential candidate for the upcoming elections and the president of a worldwide money fund.
It's been all over the news all day long, to the point of craziness. Nobody should be surprised, he's had issues with sexual assaults in the past.
Also French people aren't used to the way the US Police deals with potential criminals.
And of course, it has to be a conspiracy. From the right, USA, FBI, extreme right, people who hate the French, people who want his seat and a bazillion others.
I still don't know if I find the whole thing pitiful or funny as hell.

Can you elaborate on the bolded parts please? If you have to PM, that's fine.

[My name is Mudd]

Originally Posted by IconBasser

... why do the Americans have him? Is he a US citizen?

He is subject to US law since the alleged attack happened in a NYC hotel.

[IconBasser]

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

He is subject to US law since the alleged attack happened in a NYC hotel.

oohhhhh, got it.

[Indiana Mike]

Originally Posted by IconBasser

... why do the Americans have him? Is he a US citizen?

because he is accused of rape , confinement amongst other things while on US soil... you can't just walk away from that in the USA...

I heard they snatched him off the plane .

I heard other woman are coming forward now ...

He is soooo screwed.

but hey if he is innocent he has nothing to worry about ... the US has the fairest legal system in the world.

[My name is Mudd]

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

I heard other woman are coming forward now ...

There have been at least two other accusations made against him in the past, by women, in France.

[Jazz Ad]

That's a good way to see cultural differences. He got away with several (although minor) cases in France. Mostly the women weren't taken seriously, which is a shame. Would he have been arrested, he'd be condemned for sure.

In USA, it's a very serious affair right from the start and he gets arrested right away, which is good. Now since it's USA and the guy is loaded with more money than you could count, he might get away with parole, therapy to cure his sex addictions and undisclosed agreement between parties.

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Can you elaborate on the bolded parts please? If you have to PM, that's fine.

French people take themselves very seriously you know.

I'd bet 99 % of Americans have never even heard his name. Yet around here people describe him as one of the most powerful men in the World and figure he deserves a lot of consideration, sort of a royal status. We choped the King's head, we need people to replace him.

To the French eye, it's almost like he ruled the whole economy of the World. To top it all, he was a very potent candidate for presidential elections.

As for the police, in France until you're proven guilty there are heavy measures taken to protect the accusee. One of the most commonly known is that pics of convicts in handcuffs are forbidden in the press until proven guilty because it's considered degrading.

There is no discussion that US society as a whole is rougher and more violent than French society. People get better protection against everything around here.

To the French eye, the way DSK was arrested really is a shocking sight. They take it as a national offense, not realising that it's the normal way convicts are treated in your country.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

because he is accused of rape , confinement amongst other things while on US soil... you can't just walk away from that in the USA...

I heard they snatched him off the plane .

I heard other woman are coming forward now ...

He is soooo screwed.

but hey if he is innocent he has nothing to worry about ... the US has the fairest legal system in the world.

You're wrong Mike, the thing that offended the French was the "perp walk" he was made to do in NYC, i.e. the public picture of him being walked in handcuffs. In France, it is against the law to show photos of someone who has not been convicted in handcuffs. The French see that as predjudicial against the presumption of innocence. I think they have a good point. That said, Mr. Strauss-Kahn was treated like a typical suspect of a violent crime.

By the way, the USA does not have the market cornered on fair trials. France, and many other countries have solid legal systems too.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Indiana Mike

because he is accused of rape , confinement amongst other things while on US soil... you can't just walk away from that in the USA...

I heard they snatched him off the plane .

I heard other woman are coming forward now ...

He is soooo screwed.

but hey if he is innocent he has nothing to worry about ... the US has the fairest legal system in the world.

I think it's the parading of someone who is supposedly innocent until proven guilty that there is a problem with. In many ways, people would say that puts a slant on the American legal system, people are going to form opinions on him after such pictures and accusations in the media, then you make a jury out of people, who have also seen such media reports etc.

If found innocent by a court of law, does that mean everyone will still see him as being innocent? (ie, what happened with Micheal Jackson).

I'm just speculating here, in reality, he probably is very guilty (considering previous charges anyway, which again, is me forming an opinion on someone before a trial!).



Edit - Doc Cheese covered it in a much more elegant manner.

[sloasdaylight]

Meh, I don't really care that much, but then again I'm a fan of that Sheriff in Arizona who dresses his inmates in Pink and makes them sleep and work outside in the Arizona summer, so take that for what you will.

[Indiana Mike]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

I think it's the parading of someone who is supposedly innocent until proven guilty that there is a problem with. In many ways, people would say that puts a slant on the American legal system, people are going to form opinions on him after such pictures and accusations in the media, then you make a jury out of people, who have also seen such media reports etc.

If found innocent by a court of law, does that mean everyone will still see him as being innocent? (ie, what happened with Micheal Jackson).

I'm just speculating here, in reality, he probably is very guilty (considering previous charges anyway, which again, is me forming an opinion on someone before a trial!).


Edit - Doc Cheese covered it in a much more elegant manner.

I haven't formed an opinion and frankly don't really care ... I have my own issues to deal with ... this will NEVER personally affect me...


In America you are always handcuffed for YOUR own and the authorities protection . Uhhh yeah , right

The media always hangs people BEFORE they even have a trial ... Lets go a few years back ... a local guy had his identity stolen by a international drug ring ... The DEA raided his house and arrested him for being a major trafficker ... The media assassinated him and it was after that they discovered it had been a huge mistake ... this guy was a local business owner ... it ruined him... he moved away... Innocent the entire time.

The media here loves to create a frenzy ... they love to convict without a trial or facts ... and a lot of Americans eat it up ... you get accused and make the news you are SCREWED!

The Frenchman may be innocent but in a lot of peoples eyes he is already guilty and nothing will ever change their opinion.

[Jools4001]

The thing I find most absurd about this whole thing is that it's almost like one of those "World's dumbest criminal" reality shows on TV, like when a would be burglar leaves his ID on the counter of the liquor store that he's holding up, or when someone takes pictures of themselves on a stolen iPhone.

I can't imagine that anybody who is in such a high visibility, prominent role and has clawed their way up the ladder by being politically astute is totally dumb, so why on earth would somebody who has a huge amount of wealth and influence think to themselves "I'm feeling uncontrollably horny...I've got enough money to have any whore in Manhattan, but.... I know, I'll rape the next chambermaid that comes my way, and I'll do it in my own hotel suite so that it will lead the police right to me".

Now that seems just as dumb as holding up a bank and then using the CCTV to take pictures of yourself and put them up on Facebook.

The only explanation that I can think of, if the allegations are true, is that hugely wealthy and powerful people come to think of themselves as some kind of demigod, with mere mortals put on this planet to bend to their every whim and desire. Untouchable beings who are so powerful that the law does not apply to them. If this is the case he deserves the law to slap him hard.

On the other hand, powerful people make powerful enemies and I think that the 'honey trap' conspiracy theories are not without credibility

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jools4001

The thing I find most absurd about this whole thing is that it's almost like one of those "World's dumbest criminal" reality shows on TV, like when a would be burglar leaves his ID on the counter of the liquor store that he's holding up, or when someone takes pictures of themselves on a stolen iPhone.

I can't imagine that anybody who is in such a high visibility, prominent role and has clawed their way up the ladder by being politically astute is totally dumb, so why on earth would somebody who has a huge amount of wealth and influence think to themselves "I'm feeling uncontrollably horny...I've got enough money to have any whore in Manhattan, but.... I know, I'll rape the next chambermaid that comes my way, and I'll do it in my own hotel suite so that it will lead the police right to me".

Now that seems just as dumb as holding up a bank and then using the CCTV to take pictures of yourself and put them up on Facebook.

The only explanation that I can think of, if the allegations are true, is that hugely wealthy and powerful people come to think of themselves as some kind of demigod, with mere mortals put on this planet to bend to their every whim and desire. Untouchable beings who are so powerful that the law does not apply to them. If this is the case he deserves the law to slap him hard.

On the other hand, powerful people make powerful enemies and I think that the 'honey trap' conspiracy theories are not without credibility

Either "honey trap" or rape, Strauss-Kahn looks like a real bone(r)head in this situation.

[EBodious]

i can see the u.s. media now:

telling us all about how insulting it is to the french that we showed him doing the perp walk, all the while replaying him doing said walk...

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

That's a good way to see cultural differences. He got away with several (although minor) cases in France. Mostly the women weren't taken seriously, which is a shame. Would he have been arrested, he'd be condemned for sure.

In USA, it's a very serious affair right from the start and he gets arrested right away, which is good. Now since it's USA and the guy is loaded with more money than you could count, he might get away with parole, therapy to cure his sex addictions and undisclosed agreement between parties.French people take themselves very seriously you know.

I'd bet 99 % of Americans have never even heard his name. Yet around here people describe him as one of the most powerful men in the World and figure he deserves a lot of consideration, sort of a royal status. We choped the King's head, we need people to replace him.

To the French eye, it's almost like he ruled the whole economy of the World. To top it all, he was a very potent candidate for presidential elections.

As for the police, in France until you're proven guilty there are heavy measures taken to protect the accusee. One of the most commonly known is that pics of convicts in handcuffs are forbidden in the press until proven guilty because it's considered degrading.

There is no discussion that US society as a whole is rougher and more violent than French society. People get better protection against everything around here.

To the French eye, the way DSK was arrested really is a shocking sight. They take it as a national offense, not realising that it's the normal way convicts are treated in your country.

I follow you a bit clearer now, thanks for that