Is this worth going to court for?

[Tomis17]

Hey TB'ers,

I hope that some of you have gone through something similar and can advise me on what I can do.

Last December, my wife and I purchased our first home. We, like all other first-time homeowners, were really excited to do some work on the house. After a long winter, we finally got to put in a backyard and pave a driveway. We contracted a landscaping company to put in the lawn and they subcontract a paving company to pave the driveway. The backyard was well done but the driveway was less than satisfactory. We signed the contract middle of May to pave the driveway and they were supposed to finish the 2-day job by no later than the first week of June. The paving company did not start shaping the driveway until the second week of June. After they shaped the driveway, the shaping was not according to the drawing we had agreed on the contract. I wanted them to taper off the driveway so that it was not so steep. Well they did not do that. I contacted the landscaping company about the mess up and for them to contact the paving company to fix it. After two weeks the landscaping company finally got a hold of the paving company. The paving company said they will come back in couple of days to re-shape the driveway. It took them another 2 weeks to come out and re-shape the driveway. They did not finished the job until the first week of July. When I got the bill from the landscaping company later that month, they said the cost was $1000 more than what was estimated on the contract. ***????!!!!@$@U&*%@&

I have been fighting with the landscaping company the last 3 months about the bill and they keep telling me that I have to pay it. I am thinking that I will let them take me to court for it. I have the contract stating that I do not owe what they are charging me. Any of you guys ever gone through a dispute with a contractor?

[TOOL460002]

no experience with exactly what you are going through, but a contract is a contract. my best advice is to have an attorney look at the contract before going to court. if it is a clear violation of the contract, you win. to the best of my knowledge, you may not even need a lawyer at that point. you may just be able to hand the contract to a judge and be done with it. that is all assuming the contract is well written and that it is absolutely clear that the subcontracted driveway people are in violation of said contract.

i dont know about subcontracting, or how contracts apply to them, or the original contractors, but my father is a contract attorney, and i email him every contract i sign before i sign it, and some people are just idiots, and dont know how to write one, ie- the language is ambiguous, or contradictory.

have a professional look at it before you throw down a couple grand for a lawyer, or take time off work to go to court. i would also ask the original contractor who subcontracted these people what the deal is. have they used them before? has this happened with them before? etc, etc...

best of luck to you. that sucks. my parents have had mixed luck with landscaping people, so i know how that goes, despite being a 26 year old non-home owner. spend as little as you have to to get things right.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Tomis17

Hey TB'ers,

I hope that some of you have gone through something similar and can advise me on what I can do.

Last December, my wife and I purchased our first home. We, like all other first-time homeowners, were really excited to do some work on the house. After a long winter, we finally got to put in a backyard and pave a driveway. We contracted a landscaping company to put in the lawn and they subcontract a paving company to pave the driveway. The backyard was well done but the driveway was less than satisfactory. We signed the contract middle of May to pave the driveway and they were supposed to finish the 2-day job by no later than the first week of June. The paving company did not start shaping the driveway until the second week of June. After they shaped the driveway, the shaping was not according to the drawing we had agreed on the contract. I wanted them to taper off the driveway so that it was not so steep. Well they did not do that. I contacted the landscaping company about the mess up and for them to contact the paving company to fix it. After two weeks the landscaping company finally got a hold of the paving company. The paving company said they will come back in couple of days to re-shape the driveway. It took them another 2 weeks to come out and re-shape the driveway. They did not finished the job until the first week of July. When I got the bill from the landscaping company later that month, they said the cost was $1000 more than what was estimated on the contract. ***????!!!!@$@U&*%@&

I have been fighting with the landscaping company the last 3 months about the bill and they keep telling me that I have to pay it. I am thinking that I will let them take me to court for it. I have the contract stating that I do not owe what they are charging me. Any of you guys ever gone through a dispute with a contractor?

take lots of pix,keep all correspondence and tell them payment will not be made until the job is complete at the agreed price....contractors are notorious for that stuff.....just make sure your contract supports what you say..

make sure the contractor and subs have proper licensing from the state if required...if they don't they lose

[Steve]

You have a contract with a drawing showing how you want it done and at what price it's going to get done at.

How much it cost the contractor to get the work done is not your concern.
How long it took, how much aggravation or how many do-overs is not an issue unless you want to bring a claim against them of file a counter claim for damages.

If the work is done (finally) to your satisfaction, pay the contract amount and tell them to bite you. They have no grounds to sue or even file a mechanics lien on your property.

Chances are, that landscaping contractor is not licensed to act as a general contractor supervising other sub contractors. If he was, he wouldn't be a landscaping contractor.

Even a bad general contractor would know enough to get the forms approved in writing before the concrete got poured.

You have to pay the agreed upon amount though. Otherwise, there will be a mechanics lien on your property just sitting there at 18% a year + costs until you either sell that place or try to use it for collateral. Then, he's going to have you by the short hairs and if he's anything like me...you'll get raped. Hard.

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by Tomis17

Any of you guys ever gone through a dispute with a contractor?

Doing it right now. I've kept as much correspondence in writing as possible and kept detailed notes on the times this wasn't possible. I'm not done (we go for round 3 on Monday), but it looks like it's going to go my way without me having to get an attorney involved. Follow Cambell's advice.

Mike

[Tomis17]

Originally Posted by mike_v_s

Doing it right now. I've kept as much correspondence in writing as possible and kept detailed notes on the times this wasn't possible. I'm not done (we go for round 3 on Monday), but it looks like it's going to go my way without me having to get an attorney involved. Follow Cambell's advice.

Mike

I feel so much better knowing that I'm not the only one going through something like this. I spoke with the landscaping compnay today and the guy said that if I don't pay the pavers will put a lien on my property. I told him to let them try.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Tomis17

I feel so much better knowing that I'm not the only one going through something like this. I spoke with the landscaping compnay today and the guy said that if I don't pay the pavers will put a lien on my property. I told him to let them try.

and log all your phone calls......

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by Tomis17

I feel so much better knowing that I'm not the only one going through something like this. I spoke with the landscaping compnay today and the guy said that if I don't pay the pavers will put a lien on my property. I told him to let them try.

I just got off the phone with him. The tub is scheduled to get replaced and reinstalled at his cost on Wednesday. My concern is whether or not this happens and if they try to stiff my tile guy (a friend).

Mike

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by Tomis17

the cost was $1000 more than what was estimated on the contract.

Was the contract for a specific amount or was it an estimate?

[bigfatbass]

Even a bad general contractor would know enough to get the forms approved in writing before the concrete got poured.

Also, it is not your concern what they had to pay any subcontractor they hired. You have no agreement with the driveway people, only with the original contractor. Pay that amount, and tell them to come get you. Small claims court is cheap.

[Tomis17]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

Was the contract for a specific amount or was it an estimate?

The contract states very clearly that it will cost $2000 for the pavement and $300 for the additional gravel needed to raise the driveway. After the fact, they are saying it is $1100 for the additional gravel. "Oops, we thought we could do it for $300 but now it's more... Regardless work is done and that's how much it cost. Pay up or we put a lien on your property."

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

So it wasn't an estimate as you first had described it?

[Tomis17]

Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC)

So it wasn't an estimate as you first had described it?

No, it was an actual contract. I do agree that it may be a deficient contract though as the contract was very poorly written.

[Steve]

Feh!
The guy blew the bid. It happens all the time. He's gotta eat it.
He can't even come at you for "Unanticipated expense". He KNEW he needed fill, he just didn't know how to calculate the amount properly.

That guy can't touch you. He's not a licensed general. (they ain't that stupid) Tell him to take the contract amount and STFU or you'll file a complaint with the building dept. for contracting without a license.

Better yet, file one anyway so he doesn't hose his next client.

Estimate or contract, cost increases are approved in writing if a contractor expects to ever get paid. It doesn't matter if it's $5 or $500,000.

That's like, the first sentence on the first page of Contracting for Dummies.

If that contract / estimate does not specifically stipulate that the amount is non binding and that costs in addition to are not subject to pre approval, The written number stands. Or, it does in Florida at least.

There's a money fight at the close of every project I've ever worked on. That's a lot of fights. You get paid for what is approved in writing. If it ain't approved in writing, you eat it. Every time.

[Pilgrim]

For $1000 you can't involve an attorney. If you don't think you can do it yourself thru small claims court, then do your best to negotiate a smaller bill and pay it.

[Tomis17]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

For $1000 you can't involve an attorney. If you don't think you can do it yourself thru small claims court, then do your best to negotiate a smaller bill and pay it.

That is something I considered early on but the paving company is firm on the amount they want so the ladnscaping company will not back down. I am certainly in no positon to dish out a thousand dollars either even if that is how much it cost them to do the job. It just really ticks me off that they never gave me the opportunity check yes or no to the extra charge. That's a charge that shouldn't even be there anyway.

[Thor]

Legally, the written agreement rules the transaction.

Cost over-runs not specifically approved by you are not your
responsibility. OTOH, he has a right to file a lien. Tell him that
if he does so, you will litigate and sue him for the release of the
lien and the attorney's and court fees incurred by you.

Given that you have the agreement in writing, you should
not have a problem.

That being said, go back and review the fine print of the
contract and see if it addresses over-runs and arbitration
of disputes. Do that first before anything else. If you think
you are iron clad, fine. If not, have it reviewed by your attorney
and follow his (or her) advice.

[Steve]

That "contractor" is just trying to scare money out of the OP.
He's got no case.

You can't file a lien if you got paid the full contract amount.

I'll still bet you lunch that the contractor is not properly licensed to do the scope of work he contracted which...makes that piece of paper worthless outside a bathroom.

[Pilgrim]

Remember, you always get the MOST expert legal advice on bass forums!

[MatticusMania]

Its obvious, bassists are inherent arbitrators. We should all be working as lawyers.