On editing and moderation in the DB forums

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I got a PM reminder today from a member requesting that I make a note about deletions I make in threads. As I told the member, I have been moderating for so long that I forgot that not everyone can see the placeholders that are left when a post is deleted and the moderator summary that goes with it.

That said, I edited out a bunch of posts which were basically off topic rants for and/or against vegetarianism in order to get the thread back on topic. It was originally about BOWS, I believe?


EDIT: This thread is split from the "Vegan Bow" thread, since it kept veering off topic. When I finally removed the OT posts, it veered off topic again in regard to the editing that had been done. You wanna talk about vegan bows, go to the vegan bow thread. Wanna talk about the fascist editing of TBDB threads? Post here.

[Derek the Cello]

I apologize, I read it earlier and didn't have time to respond.

[bassphase]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

...That said, I edited out a bunch of posts which were basically off topic rants for and/or against vegetarianism in order to get the thread back on topic. It was originally about BOWS, I believe?

"Editing" posts that may veer off topic is FAR more bothersome than the off topic posts are.




bob

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by bassphase

"Editing" posts that may veer off topic is FAR more bothersome than the off topic posts are.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Feel free to relate your feelings on the matter to the number of people who requested that the thread be cleaned up, or worse, deleted because of the off topic posts. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't...

[DrBassie]

I appreciate that Chris took the time to edit the posts so as to keep pertinent information some people might be looking for. That takes a lot more time than just making the thread go poof (which I was in favor of)!

I'm sure you can find other message boards where vegetarianism is argued about, if that's what you're looking for. Now we have a nicer thread about alternative bows.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by bassphase

"Editing" posts that may veer off topic is FAR more bothersome than the off topic posts are.

- In most cases I agree, but this thread got way out of hand. Chris even removed his own OT posts.

[relacey]

I'm with DrBassie on this. I appreciate that Chris took the time to sort the wheat from the chaff. I found the discussion of selecting a bow to be as consistent as possible with one's ethics and life choices to be thought provoking, as we generally make these choices based on other considerations (cost, sound, mood, windfall lottery winnings, etc.). I didn't expect this when I started reading the posts, but it was one of the more interesting discussions I've seen in a while. So, thanks Pierce for putting this out there and thanks Chris for taking the trouble to clean it up.

[bassphase]

Originally Posted by DrBassie

I'm sure you can find other message boards where vegetarianism is argued about, if that's what you're looking for.

Honestly, I don't have the slightest interest in vegetarianism or arguing pro or con on the issue. It's the "editing" I have a problem with. Since the topic is about a "vegan' bow, I think the "off topic' posts were at least tangentially related. "Editing" happens a fair amount here. I realize that most members here agree with the moderators decisions on that issue and that I hold a minority view.


bob

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Ok, I have a few questions as to this small motive with the Bow. Please read and tell me why the Bow must be the V thingy..

The music you play is written on paper made from trees that are cut down. Who knows how the ink was made.

The Bow is drawn across the strings of a bass. The bass is made from wood, cut down trees again. The Bass is glued together by hide glue. From dead animals.

Correct me if and where I am wrong..

Strings were once all from Sheep Gut. DEAD Animals.

We study all of our life to play well and you have this huge effort to use a Bow that has NO Chance of ever performing as well as a good permanbuco stick wth real horse hair. Even a decent brazilwood bow plays better than most synthetic bows and has a good organic tone.

So.. why just the Bow? Is the Bass immuned to this V thingy but the Bow is the criminal here?

Just my two cents here....

This is a 5 page thread and we can't get 3 pages to discuss a master Pernambuco Bass bow. Why is that?

I can't get enough good Pernambuco Bows. They make a bass sound so good. It's an addiction I guess, to good music that is..

[Yellow]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You would rather have a piece of crap Bow than a real one where we killed an Elephant, Horse, Oyster and burned down half of Brazil and Africa for the woods not to mention the hollowing of the earth mining the silver and pollution and green house effects?

Geezee.. Give me a Sartory already..

By the way, Fiberglass and synthetics are made by polluting the air and earth in the manufacturing process.

Why not just be a Singer?

How will the Bass be made you play this 'save the whales' bow on?

Don't forget the rosin making and all the trees cut down to make paper to print the music with chemicals to make ink!

How will you transport the Bass, on a Horse?

True, sensitive or not, it is a fact. How far are you willing to go and why stop where you 've stopped, you still the boss of where you draw the line, how can that be objective? and if so how can it be practiced with confidence that this is the way to do it. (phylosophical discussion)

I think, that it is about stewardship of things of course. People are farming sustainably, growing things naturally, some tree cutting practices are reasonable and there is lots of things we can do with waist. Largely I think it is not about NOT doing but about doing it right, with care, respect, forsight, sustainably, creatively.

[Anonymous75966]

Originally Posted by bassphase

It's the "editing" I have a problem with. Since the topic is about a "vegan' bow, I think the "off topic' posts were at least tangentially related. "Editing" happens a fair amount here. I realize that most members here agree with the moderators decisions on that issue and that I hold a minority view.

I don't always, but thems is the rules of this site and I can work with that. I sent the PM to Chris BTW - I do think that if you have people in a community with special powers (read: mods) there should be transparency about how that power is exercised, and I'm quite satisfied with DURRL's response, so.

Websites that are manifestly collectively authored and moderated, such as Craigslist or Wikipedia, have their own problems: CL flag wars, or the 'neutrality' issues on Wiki: anybody catch the 'swift boat' fiasco during the election? The complete lack of restraint is what eventually made alt.- groups unreadable, for me anyway, and that happened years ago.

I think ERIC THE 1/2 A BASS unpacked some really very good points on the ethical issues and I suggest you all read that again before we lose the thread, again. Rather than blather on about what I think (again), I'll refer y'all to this link off site at Cat and Girl, the repository of all wisdom:
http://catandgirl.com/view.php?loc=214

[Damon Rondeau]

Originally Posted by bassphase

Honestly, I don't have the slightest interest in vegetarianism or arguing pro or con on the issue. It's the "editing" I have a problem with. Since the topic is about a "vegan' bow, I think the "off topic' posts were at least tangentially related. "Editing" happens a fair amount here. I realize that most members here agree with the moderators decisions on that issue and that I hold a minority view.

So here we go off an editing tangent...

I'm not very fond of editing either but I think small interventions are useful from time to time. I don't think our virtual community of TalkBass double bassists is naturally prone to the worst excesses of cyber-anarchy -- our bar successfully occupies the territory between loose-and-friendly hangout on the one side and highly-focused-and-disciplined resource on the other.

There are some forums out there that go overboard keeping things on-topic and in-bounds. Those places may be useful but they are a drag to hang out at -- the incessant nannying and shushing is totally obnoxious.

But our HITS THIS HERALDS is a helluva long ways from being an Evil Nanny. Long may he rule.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Ok, so here we go and already gone into subjects about 'NOT About' the topic.. Capish?

[Damon Rondeau]

Capish?

Oy gevalt.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Capish?

Oy gevalt.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=1656412

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=oy+gevalt

(aka, Oh s__t!)

[mrpc]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

-- the incessant nannying and shushing is totally obnoxious.

---------------------------------------------------
You burn your brother down in the name of "Freedom" -Kris Kristoferson

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by bassphase

"Editing" posts that may veer off topic is FAR more bothersome than the off topic posts are. . . .

Honestly, I don't have the slightest interest in vegetarianism or arguing pro or con on the issue. It's the "editing" I have a problem with. . . .

Bob, with respect, we disagree.

Blather dilutes the utility and trustworthiness of this resource. This is not a free speech forum. This is Paul's place and it works on Paul's system. Paul tells moderators to moderate and to build moderation. I'm glad about that. If Chris or Francois, in their reasoned judgment, feel that something is blather I'm glad they act.

Chris and Francois are trustworthy, thoughtful people with sound judgment. If Durrll says something works better edited I'm ready to say, "That's all."

[christ andronis]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Chris and Francois are trustworthy, thoughtful people with sound judgment. If Durrll says something works better edited I'm ready to say, "That's all."

+1

[Jeff Guevin]

I'm not a longtime TBDBer, but my two cents: the moderation has been working really well here, and I've appreciated the efforts at keeping the threads free of off-topic flames. This is a tremendous resource, and keeping it useful and relevant requires effort and the judgement of fair-minded, capable people. Hooray for Chris and Francois!

[mrpc]

Originally Posted by jguevin

I'm not a longtime TBDBer, but my two cents: the moderation has been working really well here, and I've appreciated the efforts at keeping the threads free of off-topic flames. This is a tremendous resource, and keeping it useful and relevant requires effort and the judgement of fair-minded, capable people. Hooray for Chris and Francois!

100% right on. And it's up to rest of us to respect each others introduction of another concept or point of view to a discussion, to be tolerant, and NOT make comments like "And now back to the subject". Being challenged is part of learning. Patience, tolerance and the abilty to NOT say anything are all virtues that make for deeper discussion, albeit verbal, cyber, or musical.

I'm being careful before applying for official membership, "Supporting Member" status, and I am very impressed with the moderation by Chris and Francios here.