Too Much Applause?

[mje]

Last weekend I saw a fantastic concert- the Marian McPartland Trio, with the Bill Charlap Trio opening. Each trio played a set, and then they dragged a second piano on the stage and Marian and Bill played together, as they did on "Piano Jazz". Great show.

But halfway through the concert I found myself wondering- when did audiences start applauding so much? It often gets to the point that the applause after one solo covers up what the next soloist is doing. And they applaud after every solo- good, bad, indifferent. It's more ritualistic than anything.

People don't applaud in the middle of a classical concert when the soloist pulls off a tricky cadenza. Why do it in jazz?

Or am I just getting cranky? ;-)

[Wil Davis]

An interesting topic for discussion; my pet peeve is the way audiences (especially here in the USA) tend to give standing ovations at the drop of a hat.

I have nothing against enthusiastic applause, and even standing ovations when earned, but it seems that at every single concert I attend, whether it be classical or jazz or anything (even theatre events), there is invariably the standing ovation. This dilutes the value of such an accolade, which eventually becomes so commonplace as to be almost worthless, in much the same way as swearing and the use of vulgar language, when overdone ceases to shock.

I heard an interesting observation on a new sound which is starting to invade concert halls - this was from a programme on the good old Beeb, and here's a clip.



- Wil

[Damon Rondeau]

I'm a pretty laissez faire kinda guy, especially when it comes to completely non-important topics like audience applause. The BBC anti-whooping guy, with his looking-down-the-nose treatment of the topic, can get stuffed -- oops, he already is stuffed. The whooping is just an expression of the jackass-knucklehead strain within North American culture; it's got nothing to do with mad ego on the hoof... At least these whoopers are enjoying music/dance/opera/theatre and not sitting at home in front of the tube, so bully for them.

But having said that, I gotta say that jazz clapping bugs me. It bothers me as an audience member, because now I have to participate (or not, which is a kind of participation) in rating solos as they happen and in general disturbing the perform/listen thing that's going on. As a player they bother me and please me at the same time. I like getting my kudos, absolutely, but I don't like the disruption and the experience of being rated like a figure skater or something...

In general in this day and age, though, I think we should be grateful for live audiences. Let 'em have every quirk except cellphones. Too many standing ovations, to be sure, except for the ones aimed at me.

[ispider6]

I think we should treat jazz solos like opera arias. As soon as the solo is over, the jazz group should all stop what they're doing while the audience regales the soloist with applause and shouts of "Bravo!" (or "Brava!" as the case may be). The soloist will then take extra bows and curtain calls and, should the audience be so enthusiastic, repeat said solo until the crowd is sated, then move on to finish the tune.

[jheise]

That reminds me of my favourite joke about the opera (I hope my translation makes sense):

The music journalist of a big international magazine misses a train in a small country village. He's thinking on what to do with his time and decides to go to the opera. They show an opera with tenor-solo that night and he manages to get one of the last remaining seats. The tenor, an old man whose voice already started to fade considerably, sings his solo. He's receiving standing ovations, loud applause, shouts of "Da Capo! Da Capo!". The critic is puzzled. Under great pain the tenor manages to sing his solo again. The audience goes mad. Applause, a lot more shouts of "Da Capo!". Puzzled, the critic asks the man on his left (who is applauding like mad): "My good man, the tenor totally sucks, why do you want him to sing again?" Answers the enthusiastic man: "Oh, we know. He tantalized us for quite a while now, but tonight we'll finish him."

[Pcocobass]

I saw the Ray Brown tribute at the Blue Note last week and do you know who made the most noise? The band members. In fact, Christian McBride even commented on how quiet the audience was, wondering why they weren't getting into it. Interaction from the crowd is part of the music. Some of my favorite recordings contain screams, yells, whistling and loud applause after every solo is finished. For example, listen to some of the live Jazz at the Phil stuff, or any live Ray Brown trio recording (or Superbass for that matter) and you'll hear what I mean.

If you take that out of the music, you are removing an integral part of the jazz culture. When I play, I feed off of the crowd, and if they sit there quietly I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'm not playing a concerto for godssake, and when I'm at a classical concert, I show the proper etiquite there too.

Also, remember that most of the jazz greats were raised in full gospel churches where call and response was a huge part of what went on. This spilled over from the church into the music, and was just a part of life for people.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I just think that applause, when it happens, should be spontaneous. I hate the "perfunctory clapping" thing at jazz shows, but I like it when the audience responds to something that genuinely moves them. Sometimes when I'm the one in the audience, I will intentionally refrain from clapping during the song itself when it's really happening because I don't want to cover any of it up and miss something. Other times, I feel like clapping after a great ride, so I do.

Whichever way it goes, I think that the connection between performer and audience is important, and that it should be honored (hopefully) by both sides. There are a lot of ways of showing this from both stage and house, and I'm usually just happy when the connection is made at all. After that, it's all gravy.

[Damon Rondeau]

...yeah, it's the perfunctory thing that I dislike. Particularly out here on the Canadian prairie, where we're kinda far from the jazz kitchen as it were, I feel sometimes people do the clapping thing because they think they're supposed to, it's the jazz thing to do. Just like not clapping is the classical thing to do. On bad days, then, you get both players and audience indulging in thoughtless cliche!

[relacey]

Originally Posted by jheise

That reminds me of my favourite joke about the opera (I hope my translation makes sense):

The music journalist of a big international magazine misses a train in a small country village. He's thinking on what to do with his time and decides to go to the opera. They show an opera with tenor-solo that night and he manages to get one of the last remaining seats. The tenor, an old man whose voice already started to fade considerably, sings his solo. He's receiving standing ovations, loud applause, shouts of "Da Capo! Da Capo!". The critic is puzzled. Under great pain the tenor manages to sing his solo again. The audience goes mad. Applause, a lot more shouts of "Da Capo!". Puzzled, the critic asks the man on his left (who is applauding like mad): "My good man, the tenor totally sucks, why do you want him to sing again?" Answers the enthusiastic man: "Oh, we know. He tantalized us for quite a while now, but tonight we'll finish him."

[Jazzdogg]

I find it mildly annoying when I'm trying to listen to the way musicians transition from the introduction of a song to the first chorus and audience members "interrupt" by applauding for themselves because they've figured out which song is being played - not because of anything particularly noteworthy in the performance.

Congratulations audience member: you have figured out which song is being played; I didn't realize I was attending a taping of "Name That Tune."

I also agree with those who have said that perfunctory applause for solos is a form of regression to the mean: polite applause for every solo played seems as pointless as the partisan applause that so often follows unremarkable statements made during political speeches.

For the most part, I see applause as evidence that someone has stopped listening while they express themselves, often at the expense of the musicians. That's not to say that heart-felt applause isn't appreciated; just that I view most applause as polite but meaningless behavior.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I just think that applause, when it happens, should be spontaneous. I hate the "perfunctory clapping" thing at jazz shows, but I like it when the audience responds to something that genuinely moves them. Sometimes when I'm the one in the audience, I will intentionally refrain from clapping during the song itself when it's really happening because I don't want to cover any of it up and miss something. Other times, I feel like clapping after a great ride, so I do.

Whichever way it goes, I think that the connection between performer and audience is important, and that it should be honored (hopefully) by both sides. There are a lot of ways of showing this from both stage and house, and I'm usually just happy when the connection is made at all. After that, it's all gravy.

For my money, you said it perfectly. THANKS!

[Dave Speranza]

i wont weigh in much on the clapping in jazz thing - obviously it sucks when people do it just because, but what are you gonna do?

however, i will say i'm too used to clapping after a great solo - I nearly got up and hollered today in a performance of brandenburg no 5 after the harp cadenza!

[Marc Piane]

On Friday night I was gigging with this singer. I don't solo much with her but she gave me a solo on Nature Boy. At the end there was applause then one earpiercing whistle. Scared the $#!* out of me. For a split second I forgot what tune we were playing. The band and I had a good laugh during break.

[damonsmith]

I hear the new Jarret solo cd on ECM has 17min of applause....

[mje]

That "hip fan" clappping really annoys me. Maybe they could just wear T-shirts with the names of all the Blue Note albums they own listed on them instead.

I saw something similar at a Royal Shakespeare Company performance of "Julius Caesar" last weekend. It wasn't a particularly outstanding performance (my girlfriend tells me they did a much better job with Anthony and Cleoptra the week before) but I kept hearing forced laughter from all the literature and drama majors in the audience before the humerous lines were even out of the actor's mouths.

Now about the mandatory two encores...

[Alex Spradling]

I think the whole point of live music is to present an audience something they will appreciate. Applause is an intergal part of the live music experience. Do you guys realize how pretentious it sounds to voice displeasure with an audience applauding for you? Even if the applause feels forced to me I still like hearing those claps after I take my two choruses....

The whole "they're just an audience and therefore couldn't possibly understand how sophisticated what i'm doing is" attitude cracks me up, especially in a live setting. Keith Jarrett for example...he'll stop songs when people cough...yet he's chosen to perform in a live setting and he allowed ticket sales to take place. Maybe he's just trying to get his Adam Smith on, but he shouldn't cop that that elitest crap, that doesn't work in jazz. (I know there are times where he'll have some fun with audience participation, but those moments are quite rare.)

I like to think the best way to experience jazz is live. I'm always humbled by applause for me, every single time. I really hope i never get to the point where applause annoys me.

[M Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Alex Spradling

I think the whole point of live music is to present an audience something they will appreciate. Applause is an intergal part of the live music experience. Do you guys realize how pretentious it sounds to voice displeasure with an audience applauding for you? Even if the applause feels forced to me I still like hearing those claps after I take my two choruses....

The whole "they're just an audience and therefore couldn't possibly understand how sophisticated what i'm doing is" attitude cracks me up, especially in a live setting. Keith Jarrett for example...he'll stop songs when people cough...yet he's chosen to perform in a live setting and he allowed ticket sales to take place. Maybe he's just trying to get his Adam Smith on, but he shouldn't cop that that elitest crap, that doesn't work in jazz. (I know there are times where he'll have some fun with audience participation, but those moments are quite rare.)

I like to think the best way to experience jazz is live. I'm always humbled by applause for me, every single time. I really hope i never get to the point where applause annoys me.

My following statement is in complete agreement with Alex Spradling.

I really like it when musicians become friends with you and then want to burn your CDs and sneak in the back door without buying tickets, just to try and listen to steal your licks.

We've decided we'd rather play to the audience since they're the ones who support you by buying your recordings and the tickets at the door. If they applaud, they may influence another audience member that you are worthy of your hire and possibly make another CD sale.

Questions?

[Alex Spradling]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

My following statement is in complete agreement with Alex Spradling.

I really like it when musicians become friends with you and then want to burn your CDs and sneak in the back door without buying tickets, just to try and listen to steal your licks.


Questions?

Hey, I'm sorry but your whole statement has a really awkward syntax, i'm not quite sure what you're trying to say..


I only talked about the fiscal side of music when I talked about keith Jarrett, it never came into play when i talked about applause and how i appreciate it...

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by mje

Maybe they could just wear T-shirts with the names of all the Blue Note albums they own listed on them instead.

Yes!

[M Ramsey]

Hey Alex,

Sorry for the confusion. My first statement (after saying I agree with you) was completely sarcastic.

If the music is presented in a live setting, with an audience, are you there to play for yourselves or those who are there to listen? In bluegrass, jams happen, don't know if this takes place in jazz or not.

A jam is where musicians get together in un-rehearsed groups and play standards familiar to most of those participating. Usually this is a private event, with few, if any listeners. That's where we share licks, try to pull off breaks and such to impress the players that are participating.

When in front of an audience, we (me, my fellow musicians) play to the common man who just appreciates music. He/she may not understand what the musicians are doing, but the music is pleasing to the listener.