Too Much Applause?

[Mike Goodbar]

When playing, I appreciate any and all applause, HOWEVER...

My gripe is with the guy who sits at the front table talking to his buddies, girlfriend etc at the top of his lungs, paying no attention the the band whatsoever until the solo ends. At that point, he notices that people around him are starting to applaud. He then joins in furiously, throwing in a couple of 'Yeah, mans!' then turns and continues his monologue.

I don't care if folks talk and make noise while I play (as long as there's no cover or admission fee), but, geez...

I heard that Mingus used to play fours with the crowd noise. I'd like to try that sometime.

[Alex Spradling]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodbar

When playing, I appreciate any and all applause, HOWEVER...

My gripe is with the guy who sits at the front table talking to his buddies, girlfriend etc at the top of his lungs, paying no attention the the band whatsoever until the solo ends. At that point, he notices that people around him are starting to applaud. He then joins in furiously, throwing in a couple of 'Yeah, mans!' then turns and continues his monologue.

I don't care if folks talk and make noise while I play (as long as there's no cover or admission fee), but, geez...

I heard that Mingus used to play fours with the crowd noise. I'd like to try that sometime.

Ok, I can def. agree with what you're saying. I haven't had this happen to me as a performer quite yet but i have witnessed it. I was at the blue note a few weeks ago and caught Scofield and Swallow, and this old buisness guy with like crocodile shoes and a blazer was already drunk and talking to his friends. He said something like "i'm going to the blue note to go seee some yazzzzz music, its absolutely my most favorite thing in the world." on his cellphone, then didn't pay attention to the whole show. It didn't upset me, but I did think it was funny that this guy was absolutely wasting his money by not watching the show cause' scofield be swinginnnn'.

[Alex Spradling]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

If the music is presented in a live setting, with an audience, are you there to play for yourselves or those who are there to listen? In bluegrass, jams happen, don't know if this takes place in jazz or not.

A jam is where musicians get together in un-rehearsed groups and play standards familiar to most of those participating. Usually this is a private event, with few, if any listeners. That's where we share licks, try to pull off breaks and such to impress the players that are participating.

The jam is the essence of Jazz.

Whenever I gig I always give everything I have to the music.

Getting paid seems like such a privelege at the end of every night.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Alex Spradling

I think the whole point of live music is to present an audience something they will appreciate. Applause is an intergal part of the live music experience. Do you guys realize how pretentious it sounds to voice displeasure with an audience applauding for you? Even if the applause feels forced to me I still like hearing those claps after I take my two choruses....

The whole "they're just an audience and therefore couldn't possibly understand how sophisticated what i'm doing is" attitude cracks me up, especially in a live setting. Keith Jarrett for example...he'll stop songs when people cough...yet he's chosen to perform in a live setting and he allowed ticket sales to take place. Maybe he's just trying to get his Adam Smith on, but he shouldn't cop that that elitest crap, that doesn't work in jazz. (I know there are times where he'll have some fun with audience participation, but those moments are quite rare.)

I like to think the best way to experience jazz is live. I'm always humbled by applause for me, every single time. I really hope i never get to the point where applause annoys me.

Hey Alex, I couldn't agree more. Nice post.

[standupright]

In trying to look at all sides of this thread, I'd like to pose a few thoughts on this subject.

I agree with several different viewpoints on this subject that both coincide and also contradict each other.

Music is entertainment. Simply put. Entertainment is subject to the environment in which it is presented. We are in those enviroments to provide the background of what people are looking for....atmosphere and entertainment. It is up to us to provide the canvas of the enjoyment of people's evenings. If they only partialy pay attention, or if they are engrossed, they are there for a reason, and not every reason is the same. As musicians, we can identify with those that are there to listen, and hopefully, with those that are there for other reasons. It is the culmination of all reasons that make the situation successfull. A classical situation is different from an Opera venue is different from a jazz club and a juke joint. The one thing that remains a constant is that eveyone is there for the atmosphere and EXPERIENCE that is provided.

IMHO, overall judgement of the audience's reaction, for when where, and why, is not as important as, how well of a job was done by the people that are there to provide the atmosphere / entertainment. You will never be able to control the actions of others, but you can control you own. Do an excellent job in what is expected of you. That is all that you can control. The rest will follow. But when you leave, you will be more disturbed by the fact that you missed the connection of the music by concentrating on the actions of others, than on what was necessary to make the evening succesful. If the general public feels it necessary to clap after every solo, accept the fact that there are those there that are genuinely participating and there are those that are just sheeple, following the flock.

Play from the heart, pay attention, be part of what's going on, this isn't art that you hang on the wall, captured by a moment in time, it is the experience that adds to the texture of the soul.

>>>Paul Haley

[Ben Rolston]

I find that the machine-like clapping at jazz clubs to be an annoying neccesity. On the other hand I love it when the audience really gets into it. The other week I played this gig where this guy was so into it that it pushed the whole band to greater hieghts. I think that a well timed woop is just what a soloist needs sometimes, lets them know that they sound good, making them have more fun and play better.

[Alexi David]

I hate obligatory clapping after solos. I much prefer shouts, hollers and things like that.

Bill Kirchner actually tells the audience to not do it, that it also obscures the beginning of one's solo. I will start doing the same when I soon debut as leader.

[theshadow2001]

My god but that radio piece was truly the most snootiest, elitist, arrogant and pretentious piece of journalism I've encountered in a long time or more likely ever. Even the sneery tone of who ever read it annoyed me (or should that be whom ever?).

In fact I think that it was more of a self serving exercise in reasuring us all that inspite of the hoards of ignoramuses and those with no culture venturing into your local theatres. He has some how managed to retain his impeciable good taste, britishness and strong bonds to tradition for tradition's sake. In fact Im suprised he was able to hear the other audience members from way up on his high horse.

To critique a piece of work is fine. But to do so to an audience is nothing short of ridiculous. I for one don't care what an audience does. In fact Im usually glad to know they enjoyed what I did.
How they do that is their own business. For all I care an audience could simultaniously bend over whip out their butts and do a glorious mass mooning of appreciation for the artists (whoops! was that too low brow?) But if thats the way the wind is blowing (no pun intended) for an audience to demsonstrate appreciation then so be it!

Whoopers are craving attention? Not as much as those demonstrating their impeccable decorum to the world.

Personally I think what he describes is just a sign of the times in that a greater range of people are visiting these venues and with that comes a crossover in audience reaction.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Pcocobass

I saw the Ray Brown tribute at the Blue Note last week and do you know who made the most noise? The band members. In fact, Christian McBride even commented on how quiet the audience was, wondering why they weren't getting into it. Interaction from the crowd is part of the music. Some of my favorite recordings contain screams, yells, whistling and loud applause after every solo is finished. For example, listen to some of the live Jazz at the Phil stuff, or any live Ray Brown trio recording (or Superbass for that matter) and you'll hear what I mean.

If you take that out of the music, you are removing an integral part of the jazz culture. When I play, I feed off of the crowd, and if they sit there quietly I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'm not playing a concerto for godssake, and when I'm at a classical concert, I show the proper etiquite there too.

Also, remember that most of the jazz greats were raised in full gospel churches where call and response was a huge part of what went on. This spilled over from the church into the music, and was just a part of life for people.

I agree with this - so I go along to my local Jazz club regularly
and the audience are usually pretty good, so if they like something they will create more atmosphere and drive the players on - which is most of the time!

But they do have preferences and don't tend to like anything with a hint of electric/fusion, so much. I went to a gig at the club that I really liked (electric trio guitar,bass guitar, loud rock drums) and was really enthusiastic about it - but the rest of the audience didn't - it was really deflating that there was no applause after solos and just polite applause at the end of tunes. By the end, the atmosphere was non-existent and the band finished early - whereas gigs usually over-run.

I went home having enjoyed the music but feeling somehow "cheated" although I did buy a CD of the band!


On another point I sometimes feel disppointed at Classical Concerts, where people don't applaud between movements of symphony - no matter how good the performance!

So - for example - I saw Simon Rattle conducting a top London Orchestra in Mahler's 6th, with planned short interval after the 1st movement. It was an incredibly intense performance - hugely emotional and the climax of the 1st movement was truly overwhelming - I wanted to burst into applause - but having been to many concerts in London I know the convention and you definitely get looked at as if you are a moron if you make the slightest noise!

I could feel the stunned silence in the large audience and it was like walking through victims of a war or something - walking to the foyer and my friends couldn't say anything - just that it was "intense" and you could see most people felt like that. My view was that if there had been huge applause, it would have broken the tension and made people feel very positive and lively about it - instead of walking around like stunned zombies!!

[rprowse]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Whoopers are craving attention? Not as much as those demonstrating their impeccable decorum to the world.

Here's my NZ$3's worth (equal to about US$0.02):
I enjoyed the clip because I have sometimes received Whoops without even having played more than two notes.
What was the person (Whooper) thinking?
"Hey, this is Richard Prowse! Who? Never really heard of him... and he's a bit overweight. But I bet he's good, really good! Come to think of it, he's really quite cute in his own way, even though I'm not gay (a male whooper). I bet he's really thoughtful and this is going to be fantastic!"
or
"Poor sod's looking a bit uneasy. Time for me to encourage him with a Whoop. Well, it worked for that trombone soloist last Saturday."
or
"Why are they all looking at the slightly fat guy with the bass? Whoop!"

It is nice to be encouraged, but I feel better when I think I've earnt it. Though it is all really a game... people always enthusiastically applaud my high harmonic 'bluegrass' solo that I can probably play in my sleep, but I'm still struggling with those cello suites.

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by rprowse

It is nice to be encouraged, but I feel better when I think I've earnt it.

+1
Been there.

[Bardolph]

Funny story. Last year I went to my high school's variety show ,having been one year graduated, to listen to my buddy Keaton play piano in the jazz combo's act (he's quite talented). The crowd, consisting of mostly students, was definitely not the same crowd you'd see at a jazz concert, so they're used to clapping only at the end of songs. So Keaton takes a smokin' solo in the song and when he finishes I start clapping and everybody just turns around and looks at me. Yeeeesh!