31-band equalizer - everything you'll ever need?

Colonel_Claypoo · #1 12-20-2008, 11:57 AM

why aren't many people using 31-band eq's for ultimate flexibility?

you wouldn't need a bass with active eq nor an amplifier with eq controls, just somthing like a summit td-100, a good power amp and you have all the tonal possibilities you could ever want.

i mean, if your active onboard eq boosts highs at let's say 10k then couldn't you just boost 10k with your 31-band eq and get the exact same sound?

now, what's wrong with the way i think?
who else has had my thoughts already?

thanks guys

fender_mod · #2 12-20-2008, 12:07 PM

i use a 31 band eq in my fx loop. helps out alot because my amp's eq is passive, cut only. an yes, 31 bands is VERY flexible except im getting some clipping when i push the gain too much. ill be fixing this with a 2 channel compressor/composer. running into the composer first, using the peak limiter to get rid of the clipping, then into the 31 eq and then back into the second channel of the composer for compression.

i personally wouldnt go ditching my preamp though as im quite partial to the tubes goodness in it.

greenboy · #3 12-20-2008, 12:10 PM

If you go for a 1/3 octave graphic EQ, make sure it has output gain compensation.

dreadheadbass · #4 12-20-2008, 12:10 PM

a big EQ is on my xmas list i got the big laney valve amp and i've got a rackmount compressor now all i need is a big rackmount EQ and i'm set for life..... well untill next xmas at least

bassrique · #5 12-20-2008, 12:13 PM

The Summit td-100 takes up how much space laterally? Could a compact 31-band equalizer fit right next to it for a total of one rack space? Add a one rack space power amp and your in for a total of two paces, no?

I'd be interested in a programmable 31 band. All i'd need is about 7 presets and I'd be happy.

bassrique · #6 12-20-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

If you go for a 1/3 octave graphic EQ, make sure it has output gain compensation.

I'm not a big gear guy, but I think i know what that is and what it will do, but how about a little

fender_mod · #7 12-20-2008, 12:17 PM

ya interested to hear more on the 1/3 octave thing as its how my eq operates

1954bassman · #8 12-20-2008, 12:19 PM

No 31 band for me.

Most all 31 band EQ's have a way to make up for any gain 'lost' through excessive eqing.

Mark

greenboy · #9 12-20-2008, 12:22 PM

I find that you don't need all those bands in a graphic for bass guitar and effects. Even with a 1/3-octave unit, 27 bands usually does it. And I could easily get by with a lot fewer if the Q and band interaction is right.

I've got an old Peavey Autograph II that's programmable sitting in the PA rack; if you desire recall that is one of several current or discontinued choices available. Also, DSP-driven SMS (Speaker Management Systems) like the Peavey VSX26 are amazing at not only recalling presets and give you way more abilities like compression and limiting, multiple signal chains and routing (I use one or a pair of the SIX outputs as DI). Also there are 3 inputs, all gain adjustable. The dbx Driverack PA is all right too, but I much prefer the VSX.

Also consider parametrics if you are looking for less than one rack-space.

greenboy · #10 12-20-2008, 12:24 PM

Output gain allows you to compensate for how much gain you've added or subtracted in the cumulative EQ process - you can easily check it against the un-EQ'd signal by pressing a BYPASS button. It also allows you to deliver the correct amount of gain to downstream gear that might want a weaker or hotter signal.

bassrique · #11 12-20-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Output gain allows you to compensate for how much gain you've added or subtracted in the cumulative EQ process - you can easily check it against the un-EQ'd signal by pressing a BYPASS button. It also allows you to deliver the correct amount of gain to downstream gear that might want a weaker or hotter signal.

Thank you greenboy.

FreaqyFrequency · #12 12-20-2008, 01:01 PM

If the source gear is not quality gear, you probably won't get an EQ to coax a good sound out of it, whether 3 bands or 124 bands.

In fact, one of the best uses of EQ is to cut out frequencies, especially those below 25-30 Hz. Doing so can coax more headroom out of the amp for frequencies more relevant to bass guitar.

Also, a Summit TD100 (or any preamp) plus a 31-band EQ will not get you every sound you will ever want. The elements to building a sound can be listed as:

1. Fingers (Attack/Technique)
2. Instrument (Build Quality)
3. Strings
4. Pickups
5. Circuitry (Audio Path)
6. Speaker

An EQ will only effect the circuitry. It will not make your pickups, your technique, your strings or your speaker better. If you want an EQ, that's fine, but don't expect it to magically make you sound amazing.

Colonel_Claypoo · #13 12-20-2008, 01:02 PM

what are the downsides of using a 31-band eq?

greenboy · #14 12-20-2008, 01:22 PM

Just a comment on the Peavey VSX 26 SMS: not only are they an EQ - they are several stages of EQ. You can use the EQ that's near the front of each signal chain for tonal changes, and use the EQ that's near the end of the chain to compensate for loudspeaker deficiencies. Independently on each input and output. You can even pink/RTA to compensate for the stage/room in very short order if you have a calibrated mic and still have EQ left over for tonal changes.

There are two independent line level channels and one mic-level/lower level input, and six outputs. Each input, ouput and section has adjustable gain. Each input can be routed to any output, or any group of outputs. It does internal summing of any multiple-routed signal chains (it's easier to see it in the software or on-screen). It's got compression/limiting on each output, highpass and lowpass, crossovers of any type if desired, even delay for time alignment of speakers, or backline with FOH.

Great singles-space Swiss Army knife for some effects/rigs/situations, good audio specs, and cheap enough that if you only use a portion of what it can do, it's still money well-spent. Manual and USB'd software are online; you can actually play with the software without having a unit hooked up. USB keychains can store and recall more presets if the onboard memory isn't enough.

runmikeyrun · #15 12-20-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonel_Claypoo

what are the downsides of using a 31-band eq?

You can stand there for hours and make miniscule adjustments that aren't necessary. Plus by getting a dual 15 band you have a spare EQ that you can use in your effects loop, for a separate channel (if you decide to run another head/cab setup), or for whatever else. I would say unless you have severe feedback problems you'll never need the microscopic adjustments that a 31 band eq will give you.

bongomania · #16 12-20-2008, 07:49 PM

Or another way of looking at it is that 31 bands is sort of microscopic, but may still not be as precise, "musical", or effective as a good two or three band parametric or notch filter; and the more bands of EQ there are, the more artifacts there are from filters overlapping (phase issues etc.).

One thing you typically lose in using a 31 band EQ is a whole rack space. There are several really good half-rack-width para and semi-para EQ's, and I would chose one of those over a bigger graphic any day of the week. In fact for my purposes all I'd ever want are low and high shelving and two bands of fully parametric. The low shelf for rolling off string thump below 30 Hz or so, the high shelf for taking the edge off distortion fx, one para band to notch out boominess around 150 Hz, and one para band for a bit of mid or low mid hump.

The only way I would need more than that is if I had a particularly troublesome instrument like an acoustic DB, in a room with particularly troublesome acoustics.

bassbrad · #17 12-21-2008, 04:54 PM

I have a pair of Rane 31 band EQs, but only use them to room EQ the speakers in the studio, I don't want or need that much detail for bass.

tyrelnorth · #18 12-21-2008, 05:01 PM

I have a hard enough time with my 4 band eq on my GK. If you have OCD stay as simple as possible.

ihateusernames · #19 12-21-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

There are several really good half-rack-width para and semi-para EQ's, and I would chose one of those over a bigger graphic any day of the week. In fact for my purposes all I'd ever want are low and high shelving and two bands of fully parametric. The low shelf for rolling off string thump below 30 Hz or so, the high shelf for taking the edge off distortion fx, one para band to notch out boominess around 150 Hz, and one para band for a bit of mid or low mid hump.

I've been searching (half-heartedly) for a cost effective half unit para to do this and only found the presonus 3-band (lacks high/low shelving), or single rack units. What manufacturers are you speaking of?

niftydog · #20 12-21-2008, 08:09 PM

Repeatability and excessively fine control are two points against EQ racks. If you get a great sound one day, then you change it, you'll likely never quite get back what you had before - and you'll waste hours trying. Even just shaping a simple bass boost could take minutes - and you'll need to adjust it in the next venue if you want to be making the most out of your EQ rack.

Parametrics are much more useful in this context, IMO.

I have a programmable EQ that you can recall patches on via MIDI but I've never felt it necessary to incorporate it into my rig. The semi-parametric EQ on my amp, plus my bass controls are more than enough tweakage.