3Leaf Groove Regulator Versus Barge Concepts Grinder

**TheMutt** · #1 08-19-2009, 04:03 AM

After having played around with both of these filters over the weekend, I got down to making some sound clips to compare the two. I was using my Active EBMM Stingray 5H (Ceramic magnet pickup) bass set to parallel mode with the EQ flat, this was plugged into a Tascam US-144 USB interface, and then direct into Garage Band.

Initial thoughts

While both of these filters do have their own personal characteristics that make them unique, here is how I saw them pitted against each other. Also, the reason that I am getting rid of the Grinder and replacing it with the Groove Regulator is because TBH, I usually use a wah pedal for my filter sounds live, and use an envelope filter in conjunction with an octaver and fuzz to make synth sounds. As such, the Grinder is just a large expensive pedal that doesn't see a lot of use, and I'd rather have more room for more effects.

Groove Regulator
Pros: Cheaper price, keeps the tone of the original instrument (if you like that kind of thing), smaller footprint, less hassle with setup of sounds, very easy to get great sounding usable tones.
Cons: Less tweakability, doesn't do so well as a dub filter, not enough resonance to get as drippy wet as a QTron, only functions as a low pass filter, can't use effects in the loop when unit is off.
Bottom Line: A great sounding relatively small filter at a reasonable price that has an effects loop and runs on 9v.

Grinder
Pros: More tweakability, functions better as a dub filter, more resonance on tap, handy blend/depth/gain controls, has three different expression controls, has a fixed filter mode.
Cons: More expensive, overwhelms the tone of the original instrument (if you don't like that kind of thing), larger footprint, can be a nightmare if even just one knob gets turned while in transit, very steep learning curve, can't use effects in the loop when unit is off.
Bottom Line: The big momma of all analogue filters. It's definitely worth the price you pay for it if you're going to be using it.

Sound clips are here! (with crappy playing and timing, and boring repetitive notes...

)

Groove Regulator in down mode

Track is SR5 with D'Addario Chromes -> GR in down mode -> GR w/ Big Muff in loop -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (direct & oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up & direct & oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up & direct) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up) -> GR w/ B:Assmaster

Groove Regulator in up mode

Track is SR5 with D'Addario Chromes -> GR in up mode -> GR w/ Big Muff in loop -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (direct & oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up & direct & oct down) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up & direct) -> GR w/ Octron 2 (oct up) -> GR w/ B:Assmaster

Groove Regulator Vs Grinder
A direct comparison clip trying to get the same sounds out of both filters. Obviously, the Grinder has many many more sounds in that box than are shown here.

SR5 with D'Addario Chromes (yes, they can sound good slapped) -> GR in down mode (low range) -> Grinder comparison -> SR5 -> GR in down mode (high range) -> Grinder comparison -> SR5 -> GR in up mode (low range) -> Grinder comparison -> GR in up mode (high range) -> Grinder comparison -> SR5 low B strumming -> GR LPF test -> Grinder comparison (it's best to have speakers or headphones that can handle super low frequencies to hear this one)

In the coming weeks I'll be doing more Groove Regulator clips as my unit is currently revision 1 which has less resonance than revision 2 (simple addition of 2 resistors).

Thanks for reading and listening!

FreaqyFrequency · #2 08-19-2009, 04:11 AM

Thanks for the comparison. I'll be looking forward to the clips.

groooooove · #3 08-19-2009, 11:11 AM

sounds to me like if you want a good envelope filter, grab the 3leaf.. if you want.. an expencive hard to use box that when dialed in correctly will sound like the groove regulator, then get the grinder..

Smurf-o-Deth · #4 08-19-2009, 11:20 AM

I'm sure the Grinder is an excellent recording tool, but something that fussy is less than ideal for live use.

Jared Lash · #5 08-19-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

sounds to me like if you want a good envelope filter, grab the 3leaf.. if you want.. an expencive hard to use box that when dialed in correctly will sound like the groove regulator, then get the grinder..

Maybe, but I still have yet to hear any GR clips that sound as wet as the actual Meatball could get. I'm guessing the Grinder CAN get those tones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smurf-o-Deth

I'm sure the Grinder is an excellent recording tool, but something that fussy is less than ideal for live use.

Maybe, but that was a flaw the Meatball itself had too and one reason I figured I'd never buy one. But Phil Lesh and Ed O'Brien (among others) used it regularly live so what do I know?

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #6 08-19-2009, 12:07 PM

Thanks for the head to head. The Grinder is actually the envelope filter I intended to get before getting the 3Leaf. I only grabbed the 3Leaf because it looked interesting and I was tired of waiting for the much-delayed Grinder to come out. Your review seems to match what I assumed the pros and cons of each to be.

groooooove · #7 08-19-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Maybe, but I still have yet to hear any GR clips that sound as wet as the actual Meatball could get. I'm guessing the Grinder CAN get those tones.

the GR clips ive heard with the intencity all the way up are pretty wet, but i agree not wet enough. but as stated before, the grinder is a really sensitive filter.. one knob gets moved, and its game over.

**TheMutt** · #8 08-19-2009, 02:18 PM

Soundclips are here! I'd love to do more GR Vs Grinder clips, but unfortunately the Grinder is currently being packed to go to its new home.

kevteop · #9 08-19-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

the grinder is a really sensitive filter.. one knob gets moved, and its game over.

Assuming you don't know how to use your own filter.

Chronicle · #10 08-19-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMutt

Soundclips are here! I'd love to do more GR Vs Grinder clips, but unfortunately the Grinder is currently being packed to go to its new home.

Glad you liked the GR more...I'd want a Grinder if I wanted a Meatball...too much money for me ;/

**TheMutt** · #11 08-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Glad you liked the GR more...I'd want a Grinder if I wanted a Meatball...too much money for me ;/

It's a great filter. The only things I could ask for in the way of additional features would be a footswitch to allow you to wire the effects loop directly to the in and out bypassing the GR circuit, and a stopped filter mode as on the Grinder. That way you could use the effect that was in the loop, and use the GR as a dub filter.

Spencer! · #12 08-19-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMutt

It's a great filter. The only things I could ask for in the way of additional features would be a footswitch to allow you to wire the effects loop directly to the in and out bypassing the GR circuit

I thought about doing this as well, but there's just not room for the additional footswitch in the enclosure. It is a cool idea, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMutt

and a stopped filter mode as on the Grinder.

Do you mean the filter sweeps with the turn of a knob instead of with the volume of the note?

**TheMutt** · #13 08-19-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer!

I thought about doing this as well, but there's just not room for the additional footswitch in the enclosure. It is a cool idea, though.

Even a toggle switch would be cool. I might tinker around with it at a later date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer!

Do you mean the filter sweeps with the turn of a knob instead of with the volume of the note?

That would work.

Did the soundclips come out to your liking? I can redo anything if need be, and also use my passive Jazz bass as well.

Spencer! · #14 08-19-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMutt

Did the soundclips come out to your liking? I can redo anything if need be, and also use my passive Jazz bass as well.

If you're happy with them, I'm happy!

kevteop · #15 08-19-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMutt

Even a toggle switch would be cool. I might tinker around with it at a later date.

I've got exactly that feature on my Meatwad. I would've liked it on a stomp but this enclosure is the same size as the Groove Regulator and it's got... 5 jacks, 6 knobs, 9 switches and a footswitch on it. It's fairly busy!

**TheMutt** · #16 08-19-2009, 08:05 PM

Looking at the internals, I could probably retrofit a switch where the battery goes since I never use my effects with a battery.
The hardest part would be changing out the original jacks, wiring it up, and drilling and wiring up a switch (I assume this could be done with a 4pdt).

Georges Abitbol · #17 08-20-2009, 08:49 AM

Thanks for this review!

Okay so the 3leaf wins for you.

But compared to the Robot Factory Meatwad, what's the winner?

Thanks again!

Funkinthetrunk · #18 08-20-2009, 02:30 PM

After few words with young Einstein (Spencer) and the thumbs up from TheMutt, I will be adding the GR to my arsenal of filters.

Damn, I love TalkBass!!

Jared Lash · #19 08-20-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georges Abitbol

Thanks for this review!

Okay so the 3leaf wins for you.

But compared to the Robot Factory Meatwad, what's the winner?

Thanks again!

I think you'd end up with pretty much the same conclusions though the Meatwad is basically the same size as the GR. But it is more expensive, more complex and trickier to dial in but also more versatile and probably wetter.

Both it and the Grinder are supposedly true clones of the Meatball. And I'm guessing the difference between those two is that the Grinder is bigger and just conjecturing on my own Robot Factory and Barge pedals I'm guessing the Grinder has better construction. No slight to Mario (whose work I like) but Barge stuff is top notch IMO.

But again I've only ever played the original Meatball so take my statements with a grain of salt.