Abstract Laptop FX: Bidule, Audiomulch, Reaktor, etc.

JES · #1 07-01-2010, 12:32 PM

Hi All,

I have been watching the "all software" thread but it seems like much of the discussion revolves around software solutions as alternatives to hardware in "traditional" bass environments.

I'm curious if anyone is doing more abstract or (I hate this phrase) "experimental" music either alone or with others with a bass, a laptop and some software. I'm particularly interested in granular synthesis and glitch effects and other things that are "natively" software processes rather than models of hardware.

I use Live, Reaktor, Riverrun, Soundtoys, and a bunch of other plugs, and I'm starting to experiment with Bidule, which I quite like. I often mix fragments of bass recordings with environmental sounds and samples, so I'm not sure any of it sounds like a "bass" when it's done. I have been known to use hardware effects too on the input end (distortions, filters, etc) but that's not the focus of this query.

Most of this stuff is studio improvs, so it's as much tweaking as it is bass-playing, but since a lot of my sounds start out as bass sounds, I thought I'd post here and see if there are others like me out there.

I am particularly interested if anyone has found a way to do this kind of thing live in a way that's entertaining for audiences.

--JES

Taylor Livingston · #2 07-01-2010, 01:32 PM

I'm the one who started that other thread some years ago, and it was Bidule that got me going with it. I quite liked all the strange things I could design with that program and some free plugins. Personally, I found the computer approach lacking for all the usual reasons: audio pops, latency, lack of a physical user interface, etc. My interest to duplicate all that Bidule strangeness in hardware effects is what led me to learn to build electronics, and now I've designed some hardware effects that can do all that computer weirdness (these are just things I design for myself, not commercial boxes).

I think if you don't mind bringing a computer around, and you have one with enough power to run all the latest software without latency, Bidule and some plugins will get you farther into granular, glitch, spectral processing, etc. than you will ever get with plain old pedals.

As for entertaining audiences, I think you'll have a hard time until you build a following. I've watched my favorite computer musicians do live performances (online, not in person), like Autechre, Venetian Snares, and Squarepusher, and found it to be incredibly boring. But people are interested because the music is good.

There's a guy called Kasper Toeplitz who does bass into Max/MSP stuff, and he's kind of fun to watch because he makes these totally goofy faces while playing; not intentionally.

bongomania · #3 07-01-2010, 01:51 PM

I love making this sort of music, but it's deadly-dull to watch unless you provide some extra visual entertainment.
Here's one example I have on video of one of our shows from a few years back. It's not good, but it illustrates an attempt to make things more visually interesting:
http://www.ev-b.com/vids/bluecube3.mov
(warning: it's 18.7 MB, a slow load for some)

steubig · #4 08-26-2010, 10:38 PM

hi,

coming to this a little late.

i'm doing something slightly similar in that i'm running a hardware analog/digital effects chain for 6-string bass plus laptop stuff for beats (ableton live) and sound creation (max/msp).

i came across this thread cause i wanted to see if anyone was using anything specific for bass effects in the laptop universe. i've been thinking of using the ableton live effects and looper for bass, but i felt the latency with my setup was not what i wanted. i really wish there was some sort of foot controller that could just run the ableton effects because i think they're quite good.

in any event . . . "experimental" music is a term i also dislike as the implication is that one doesn't know what one is doing. maybe "investigative" would be better. the visual aspect can be daunting even if you have live instruments with the laptops . . .

doing a lot of completely free improv with this sort of stuff. here's clip of me and a saxophonist doing laptop stuff long with our live stuff (sound quality is so-so): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejwsb38BCGk

JES · #5 08-27-2010, 06:56 AM

Hey There,

Depending on what you're doing and what kind of laptop you're running, you can set latency very low. It reduces the number of plugin instances, but you'd still get more than you would with software. If I run Live with a buffer at 64 or below I find the latency musically acceptable. Some people are happy with 128.

The holy grail would be something like Muse Receptor except that plugin selection is limited (though it does include Reaktor, which is like a back door to infinity), the price power ratio is bad and they way overdue for a software update. Actually, my fantasy would be some kind of hackintosh set up as a receptor.

HTH.

steubig · #6 08-27-2010, 08:47 AM

yeah, i'll recheck that. i did have some trade-off issues that you're talking about.

when i see people talking about 1-3 ms of latency, well . . . i don't know what i had, but i felt the difference and didn't like it. that's one big advantage of the analog signal path (at least so far) for me.

gonna look up the muse receptor now.