Advice on Envelope Filter

scHism · #1 03-02-2011, 11:19 AM

Search function did not show answers I needed.

I am planning to purchase an envelope filter.

Issue is we have limited availability here. What I need is a compact pedal, can get a variety of envelope filter effects, I need more of the subtle effects than full blown wahwah, low price, durability. I need something to pair up w/ my swollen pickle and BF-3.

So far this is what I know.

1. Boss AW-3 - readily available, cheap, small form factor, not so good reviews.
2. Digitech BSW - readily available, cheap, small form factor, from what I have read, more versatile than Boss.
3. Source Audio BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 1&2, better reviews, big footprint
4. MXR BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 1,2and3, better reviews, great small form factor.

Any other recommendations, w/c would you choose. It is hard to get "boutique" pedals since I am overseas. BTW, we play more of TOOL/NIN/FEAR FACTORY/HATEBREED type of songs.

Thanks!

FromTheBassMent · #2 03-02-2011, 11:23 AM

If you can afford it and you don't require a unit that can be switched to do a downward sweep, buy the MXR. It is absolutely killer.

Bassmike62 · #3 03-02-2011, 11:30 AM

I had the AW-3, ended up returning it 24 hrs after buying it. Really did not like it, sounded too artificial for me. Don't know about the 2 others, but I do have the BSW. Pretty interesting thing, to say the least. In my (limited) experience, some modes are unusable in a band context, but I do use modes 1 and 2 as enveloppe filters and mode 7 as an octaver. I also used for a little while mode 3 with a Boss BF-3 to create a mock-sequencer thing (Legs, ZZ Top). Strangely enough, after not liking the Aw-3, I'm really liking the BSW, but I did take me awhile to figure it out in my band context.

scHism · #4 03-02-2011, 11:35 AM

@ Bassmike62 Interesting, I did not know the BSW has an octaver mode. 1 point for the BSW

@ FromTheBassMent > Sorry if i sound noob but what do you mean by downward sweep?

Thanks guys!

Any other info?

Jared Lash · #5 03-02-2011, 11:41 AM

Based on how you describe the music you play I'd say the MXR Is your best bet. It sounds great when combined with dirt and has a very aggressive sound.

I don't know if Justin Chancellor actually played around with it or if it was just staged for this video, but here's his bass tech giving a tour of JC's setup and then playing through it at the end. He uses the MXR BEF a bit so you can hear how it sounds with that type of tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kat6WNUS-k

FromTheBassMent · #6 03-02-2011, 11:53 AM

[quote=scHism;10528856@ FromTheBassMent > Sorry if i sound noob but what do you mean by downward sweep?
[QUOTE]

There's nothing wrong with being a noob... we all gotta start learning somewhere, right?

Your basic envelope filter sound is triggered by your attack on the strings, and the frequency envelope is pushed from low to high frequencies, then falls back to low. This is the same effect you'd get with a wah-wah pedal if you started with your heel back, then pushed your toe down, then returned to heel back... it's the sound we all call "wah," only with a filter it's triggered and happens automatically.

(Personally, I think a filter sweep sounds more like "wow" than "wah," but maybe that's just me.)

With a downward or reverse sweep (available on some filters), the sweep is turned around... toe down - heel back - toe down. It's pretty crazy sounding, but when I had filters that could do it, I never found a way to make it work in a live band setting. The standard filter sweep just sounds much more musical to my ears.

Some people have dissed the MXR at length for lacking a switch to reverse the filter sweep, but I don't miss it, and I think the tone of the MXR is so superior to the other three you listed that you'd be much happier with it.

scHism · #7 03-02-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Based on how you describe the music you play I'd say the MXR Is your best bet. It sounds great when combined with dirt and has a very aggressive sound.

I don't know if Justin Chancellor actually played around with it or if it was just staged for this video, but here's his bass tech giving a tour of JC's setup and then playing through it at the end. He uses the MXR BEF a bit so you can hear how it sounds with that type of tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kat6WNUS-k

Thanks! That is really what I am looking for, more of a paired effect w/ lots of dirt, aggressive not the BEF as the main tone but just adding modulation/dimension to the fuzz.
I have heard every TOOL song, but never heard him using an envelope filter. It could just be me not really knowing it is a BEF because of the tons of effects he use.

Looks like I am going to cut down on the beer money and save up for the MXR.

bassbrad · #8 03-02-2011, 12:21 PM

I really like the versatility of the BSW; envelope, envelope/octave, octave/synth settings are quite good it is my 2nd fave after my EHX BassBalls.

Bassmike62 · #9 03-02-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbrad

I really like the versatility of the BSW; envelope, envelope/octave, octave/synth settings are quite good it is my 2nd fave after my EHX BassBalls.

These 2 are also the only filters on my board right now. I had the Bassballs modded last year and that really made it a much more tweakable pedal.

JimmyM · #10 03-02-2011, 03:32 PM

honestly, before i bought any envelope filters, i'd take a look at what our pal spencer from 3 leaf audio is doing. his groove regulator has become somewhat of a classic, and he just recently released a smaller envelope filter that looks great for those whom the size and tweakability of the groove regulator isn't needed.

edit: oops, skipped the part where you said boutique pedals are hard to get. never mind

TOOL460002 · #11 03-02-2011, 03:35 PM

im pretty sure ive said all this before, sorry pardon the broken record aspect:

xo qtron- i came full circle and just had it modded to have a volume knob that only cuts, because the volume spike that comes with it is otherwise unavoidable. its the wettest, best sound ive played.

others ive got:

robot factory meatwad- versatile, though i mostly bought it tp run into and simultaneously with the qtron. the exp function is excellent.

maxon af-9- probably my second favorite of the bunch.

chunk systems os envelopes- eh... not my favorite. the just plain envelope (i assume this is how the 00funk sounds) is a bit thin.

guyatone ultron- laser sounds are fun, but its really just a better autowah.

i want to try the mxr and subdecay proteus badly. i can see myself buy a proteus regardless.

happy enveloping.

Chowowbus · #12 03-02-2011, 03:37 PM

Doing Tool? MXR all the way dude...those other pedals will be money spent on dissapointment..

TOOL460002 · #13 03-02-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chowowbus

Doing Tool? MXR all the way dude...those other pedals will be money spent on dissapointment..

lol- those other pedals are money spent and are just upstairs. hehe... no, i dont play tool. id say what i tend to write is in that direction, but definitely not a clone. i hate down tuning and using a pick, too, so that takes me out of the running.

if the mxr is that good, well, then i better find one to play locally. its still going to be hard to dethrone the qtron, especially since it has another switch for a series loop. it could join the bunch, though.

Rich Treat · #14 03-02-2011, 04:01 PM

You might check out EBS. I love their pedals. I think that somebody mentioned the bassballs pedal, but I also like that one a lot.

**bassybill** · #15 03-02-2011, 04:19 PM

I have the MXR BEF and the Digititech BSW. Comparing the two is interesting and fairly easy as they're so very different in approach and the sounds they actually make. Chalk and cheese, really.

The MXR does just exactly what you'd expect a filter to do - the classic funky autowah effect, albeit in a range of flavours. No major surprises with it, but it does what it does supremely well and sounds perfect in that role when tweaked to suit. Best filter I've used and I don't miss the reverse sweep at all.

The Digitech does NOT do that classic wah thing particularly well, imo, although it can at least attempt it. But it does a whole lot more other stuff, including a synth (I don't use that) and octaver. In fact, just a for a basic one octave down blendable signal, it's still one of the best pedals I've used. Tracking is excellent. It's all I use it for, really, and I've felt no urge to get another octaver.

So, the two are very different - almost a BSW "jack of all trades" versus MXR "master of one" scenario, with the Digitech's usefulness as an octaver needing to be added to that equation. If you want a classic filter, then the Digitech won't suit and you'll neeed to spend more money on the MXR, just comparing those two - I can't comment on the Boss or the Source Audio, haven't tried them.

I hope that helps.

Bassoballs · #16 03-02-2011, 04:24 PM

I have an EBS and really like it, its very easy to dial in a usable sound.

scHism · #17 03-02-2011, 05:38 PM

Sorry but I will not be able to go with the uncommon stuff. I will have to stick w/ common, mass produced stuff. And BTW I am buying new, impossible to get good used items here.

Thanks guys, I am really learning a lot from your posts.

Updating,

1. MXR BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 2and3, better reviews, great small form factor.

2. Digitech BSW - readily available, cheap, small form factor, from what I have read, more versatile than Boss.

3. Source Audio BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than better reviews, big footprint

4. ELX Qtron - will need to order from US, larger footprint, unusual power requirement, price same as MXR.

Any comments about SA BEF?

Chrisk-K · #18 03-02-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

So far this is what I know.

1. Boss AW-3 - readily available, cheap, small form factor, not so good reviews.
2. Digitech BSW - readily available, cheap, small form factor, from what I have read, more versatile than Boss.
3. Source Audio BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 1&2, better reviews, big footprint
4. MXR BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 1,2and3, better reviews, great small form factor.

I bought an AW-3 and immediately returned. It sounded very artificial.

I used an MXR BEF for 3 months. It has killer tones. However, its Q is too strong for my taste. Plus, if you have light touch, it's difficult to open the envelope.

I use a SA BEF now. It has a truly amazing variety of tones and it's easy to create out-of-this-world tones. Combined with an OC-3, it gives me the funk tone from Hell!! The SA BEF is my favorite BEF of all time (I've owned 10+ filters).

Edited to add: The SA BEF can emulate the MXR BEF and the 3 Leaf BEF. The emulation sounds pretty convincing to me.

**bassybill** · #19 03-02-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scHism

Sorry but I will not be able to go with the uncommon stuff. I will have to stick w/ common, mass produced stuff. And BTW I am buying new, impossible to get good used items here.

Thanks guys, I am really learning a lot from your posts.

Updating,

1. MXR BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than 2and3, better reviews, great small form factor.

2. Digitech BSW - readily available, cheap, small form factor, from what I have read, more versatile than Boss.

3. Source Audio BEF - will need to order from US, pricier than better reviews, big footprint

4. ELX Qtron - will need to order from US, larger footprint, unusual power requirement, price same as MXR.

Any comments about SA BEF?

Sorry, but I think you're going about this all wrong and with TOTALLY the wrong focus. You're buying something for making music, not a ****ing refrigerator.

You're not asking yourself the right questions and still need to decide on the basic issue of what you want the pedal to actually DO or sound like. Put stuff like footprint and other secondary issues to one side for a bit. A pedal with a conveniently small form factor is a useless hunk of trash if it doesn't make the noises you want it to.

To emphasise what I said before, for example - if you want the sounds the MXR makes, the Digitech will most certainly NOT make you happy, even if you could buy it for $5, run it for 10 years on a single AAA battery and carry it in a matchbox.

Just trying to help here and maybe save you some money/disappointment. Can you post a youtube clip or something of the sort of sound you're after?

phatbass30 · #20 03-02-2011, 09:28 PM

scHism, bro i'm pinoy too. i had the MXR BEF for few months. i did all my best to get the right setting but i couldn't. i don't know maybe its my Sadowsky's high output because of the Aguilar onboard pre or maybe like Chrisk-K mentioned before that maybe the Q was too strong for my taste. i am using 3leaf Proton. its small and it has the right amount of QUACK that i want from a filter. maybe its not as versatile as SA but its great for what it does. i live in Bangkok so ordering it from the US is still cheaper from buying it here with a local boutique seller. you might wanna check it out bro.