Ampeg B15N Fliptop Patch for Zoom B2 Series Multi-FX

bebop1 · #1 06-25-2009, 02:18 PM

Below is my Ampeg Portaflex Fliptop patch for the Zoom B2/B2.1u

I own a 1965 B15N (all original - just newer tubes and caps) and did a direct comparison workup between my B15N and B2.1u. I used an instrument switcher to go back and forth between my Ampeg and the Zoom unit through aMarkbass CMD12P combo (LMII) and Markbass 112H extension cab. I wanted to replicate the clean sound from the vintage unit. I might work out an overdrive patch the same way sometime, but I don't tend to play in that territory.

I sat for hours A/Bing the two setups (with instantaneous foot switch for no delay) until I got pretty well identical sounds out of the 2 rigs across the whole fingerboard and with all right and left hand pressures. The Markbass was set totally flat with the two VLE and VPF filters disengaged. I used USA Precision and Jazz basses for comparison testing and found that the patch sounded pretty well exactly the same (i.e the Jazz had it's sound and the Precision it's own sound through each rig).

Here's what I came up with. I ended up using the Ampeg Driver on the Zoom, although I could get close with the Bassman driver as well.

Limiter: 5,5,78
Wah/FX: Off
Drive: Ampeg (AG) 1,10,54
ZNR: E9, 1.0, 62 (this is to taste - doesn't change tone)
LoEQ: 1,4,-2
HiEq: 0,0,-5
Mod: Off
Delay: Off
Reverb: Off
Cntl: Volume (set to Drive works as well)

Now, this is the patch for my Markbass, but since that unit does not colour tone much (if at all) any equivalent uncloloured setting on your rig should work similarly. Minor adjustments to EQ on the Zoom may be needed for your unit (i.e. if it is more bass or treble leaning compared to Markbass).

I'm pumped to know that the Zoom can deliver an equivalent tone to my beloved B15N. Now I can get giggable volume with that musical tone that sits in a mix so well.

There, now you don't need to go out and get a Fliptop. All the golden tone subtlety is yours if you want it.

bebop1 · #2 06-25-2009, 02:26 PM

BTW, the EQ settings on the zoom were graphic, not parametric EQ.

RickenBoogie · #3 06-25-2009, 03:42 PM

Although I do not doubt your results, my own expirience with modelling has always been disappointing. As an example, (guitar), I A/B'd a Vox AC15 against a Valvetronix AD50VT set to "AC15" mode. Not even remotely close. It was enough to put me off the whole idea. Only bass modelling I've done was with a Line6 amp, and results were similar. I believe the essence of modelling is nothing more than eq tweaks in any given devices signal path. Doesn't mean it can't be done, as you've shown, but I'll stick with what I've got for the time being.

Spacelordmother · #4 06-25-2009, 04:34 PM

Cool. I look forward to trying it out when I get home from work.

(yay weekend!)

groooooove · #5 06-25-2009, 04:48 PM

i need to hear soundclips to believe this.

every amp modeler ive ever plugged into has disapointed me, unless you count the sansamp as a modeler, but i think its more of a dirt box..

bebop1 · #6 06-25-2009, 06:21 PM

Hey, I hear ya. I'd be skeptical too. But, I am quite impressed with the results. I have never done up sound clips, but I think I might figure it out just for this. I was surprised to say the least.

JimmyM · #7 06-25-2009, 11:59 PM

About to hit the hay, but I'll be trying this one tomorrow.

bebop1 · #8 06-26-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

About to hit the hay, but I'll be trying this one tomorrow.

Jimmy - your opinion would be worth a great deal to everyone. You definitely have a thing for the B15Ns! It kinda nails it on my equipment and I'm pretty fussy and love the original dearly. I wonder if it translates to other rigs.

fightthepower · #9 06-26-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

About to hit the hay, but I'll be trying this one tomorrow.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Zoom VS your B15 and VT-Bass

You even use a Markbass rig when not using the old Ampegs right?

JimmyM · #10 06-26-2009, 12:15 AM

Nice of you to say so, Bebop, but I'm hardly an expert. If it sounds to you like one, that's all that matters.

bebop1 · #11 06-26-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightthepower

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Zoom VS your B15 and VT-Bass

You even use a Markbass rig when not using the old Ampegs right?

Right, I use Markbass exclusively live. I use the B15N when recording and rent it out to a studio now and again for their bass-tracking purposes. If I continue to enjoy the Zoom patch, I'll use it gigging.

I also look forward to Jimmy's VT comparison. I don't have one of those wonders. I expect that it handles the OD better than the Zoom but that's not what I use very often. So, does the VT do a better job than the Zoom? My A/B comparisons suggest it can only match the Zoom.

The 2 rigs sound the same - sound clips to be added possibly tomorrow.

JimmyM · #12 06-26-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightthepower

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Zoom VS your B15 and VT-Bass

You even use a Markbass rig when not using the old Ampegs right?

Ya, through a B-15N cab. Been using it a fair amount lately since a lot of my outdoor gigs have been threatened rainouts.

Aw, the hell with sleep...I gotta try this! Got my Zoom right here...brb!

bebop1 · #13 06-26-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ya, through a B-15N cab. Been using it a fair amount lately since a lot of my outdoor gigs have been threatened rainouts.

Aw, the hell with sleep...I gotta try this! Got my Zoom right here...brb!

I'll wait up!

JimmyM · #14 06-26-2009, 12:43 AM

OK, here goes...

Mind you, I only did it with (good) headphones, but it sounded very much like my 77 B-15N with the bigger cab. Needs a shot of 800 hz to sound like my 64, though. The one thing I'm not sure about is the amount of OD in the signal. I backed it down and brought up the overall volume and it cleaned it up and still sounded pretty accurate to me. However, since it was through headphones, and OD is kind of hard to judge through headphones, it probably sounds a lot less intense through an amp.

Overall, though, I think you did an excellent job and got a sound that's very much in the realm. At the very least, it's close. How close I can't tell at 2:30 am and a sleeping family, but it's up there.

bebop1 · #15 06-26-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

OK, here goes...

Mind you, I only did it with (good) headphones, but it sounded very much like my 77 B-15N with the bigger cab. Needs a shot of 800 hz to sound like my 64, though. The one thing I'm not sure about is the amount of OD in the signal. I backed it down and brought up the overall volume and it cleaned it up and still sounded pretty accurate to me. However, since it was through headphones, and OD is kind of hard to judge through headphones, it probably sounds a lot less intense through an amp.

Overall, though, I think you did an excellent job and got a sound that's very much in the realm. At the very least, it's close. How close I can't tell at 2:30 am and a sleeping family, but it's up there.

Thanks J. I guess the output of the bass (your active Lyte) would have a great deal to do with differences - Duh (on my part). It is really very close on my axes (all passive Fenders) and rigs. It really surprised me and may be close enough for gigging. I'll have to test at stage volume next and record some clips.

JimmyM · #16 06-26-2009, 12:53 AM

Actually I gutted my Lyte and I have passive electronics and a QP/Ultrajazz combo on there now. Sounds quite close to a regular PJ with the overwound pickups but it may be a tad hotter. I'll try it again some more tomorrow if I get a chance...that Zoom is a pretty amazing little unit for $100 (I didn't get the one with the expression pedal).

bebop1 · #17 06-26-2009, 12:57 PM

OK, I have a short sound file. I switch back and forth between:

1965 Ampeg Fliptop Portaflex
Markbass 112P (LMII) combo with Markbass 112H extension cab using the above Zoom B2 patch.

I won't say which is which at this time so that you can listen without a priori expectations. I can certainly tell differences between the 2 rigs in the recording, but they have a similar character sonic footprint. In the room, through the amps, the differences are much less discernable, believe me.

I feel that the sound is close enough to use live, and will try it out at some bar and outdoor gigs I have coming up. At stage volumes, there is even less to seperate them.

RickenBoogie · #18 06-26-2009, 01:50 PM

Impressive. Of course, through my computer speakers, it's not 100% fair, but the tones were both similar, and had that classic warm tone, very precise and articulate, with a bunch-o-fat. Nice work. I'm still not gonna change my ways, though.

bebop1 · #19 06-26-2009, 01:59 PM

Thanks RickenBoogie.

I still have to use it in real stage settings to see if I can squeeze musicality out of my axe. I love to feel and respond to the feedback from my bass and if the modeling limits this I will jump ship. But I am very impressed by the accuracy of the modeling in my home studio and have some expectation that this may be a good option to get the B15N live (without subjecting my real unit to moving - and it isn't loud enough for most gigs anyway).

PilbaraBass · #20 08-16-2010, 05:54 PM

Sorry for digging up the dinosaur thread, but just wanted to say that I've been driving this patch in my B2.1u live for the last 2 weeks and I really like it.
It's not quite as "thick" as my other Ampeg patches, a little cleaner (but still plenty warm) with a nice, even frequency response. Using this patch as the "backdrop" sound, I can then use my bass' controls to
get the sounds that I want. I highly recommend anyone who drives a B2 or B2.1u to give this one a spin.

How does it compare to a B15N? Well, I wouldn't have a clue... but neither does it really matter as long as I like what I hear...