Bass Distortion w/semi-parametric mids?

**DosiYanarchy** · #1 09-23-2009, 12:05 PM

hey all,

Just read the new issue of Bass Player with Chris Wolstenholme, i think most of us by now know what his gear is and so on, so im not gonna go fanboy (although i did note that he now uses TWO animatos and TWO muffs).

The thing that struck me most were his words on finding a distortion tone that stands apart from the guitar tone, trying to keep the frequencies separate so as not to muddy up the sound.

Now dont get me wrong, for stoner stuff i prefer to get a little muddy (think russian muff with tone at minimum and gain cranked) so that the guitar and bass form one big monsterous riff. But at the moment im looking for something else.

What im essentially looking for is a bass distortion or fuzz with a parametric EQ so i can tweak the frequencies to suit the music i play. I'm looking for something that is 'clean-sounding' and by that i mean good note definition, some kind of gate may be useful but by no means essential.

I owned, and loved the MXR Blowtorch for quite a while, but i dont wish to go back to it just yet.

I've got high hopes for the Fender Sub-lime as it does seem to have a semi-parametric EQ, but its not out for another month and theres not much info on it yet.

I am currently playing a Fender 70's RI jazz though a VTbass (and other pedals) into a Markbass LMII and through a Zoot 210 and 115.

I did search talkbass, I also searched Bassfuzz.com

my budget is around £150 (or $250us)

any suggestions

CliftonBonney · #2 09-23-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DosiYanarchy

hey all,

Just read the new issue of Bass Player with Chris Wolstenholme, i think most of us by now know what his gear is and so on, so im not gonna go fanboy (although i did note that he now uses TWO animatos and TWO muffs).

The thing that struck me most were his words on finding a distortion tone that stands apart from the guitar tone, trying to keep the frequencies separate so as not to muddy up the sound.

Now dont get me wrong, for stoner stuff i prefer to get a little muddy (think russian muff with tone at minimum and gain cranked) so that the guitar and bass form one big monsterous riff. But at the moment im looking for something else.

What im essentially looking for is a bass distortion or fuzz with a parametric EQ so i can tweak the frequencies to suit the music i play. I'm looking for something that is 'clean-sounding' and by that i mean good note definition, some kind of gate may be useful but by no means essential.

I owned, and loved the MXR Blowtorch for quite a while, but i dont wish to go back to it just yet.

I've got high hopes for the Fender Sub-lime as it does seem to have a semi-parametric EQ, but its not out for another month and theres not much info on it yet.

I am currently playing a Fender 70's RI jazz though a VTbass (and other pedals) into a Markbass LMII and through a Zoot 210 and 115.

I did search talkbass, I also searched Bassfuzz.com

my budget is around £150 (or $250us)

any suggestions

I read the same article and found it very interesting. I like how he has his three effect loops pictured although the wording of the article didn't match up with the picture. I'm not sure if that was an intentional error to hide his true tone or what.

Anyway, I can't really help you on your request. But, I was wondering, how do you know what frequency the guitar is in so that you can play in a different frequency?

Edit: So are you looking for a pedal that you can specify the frequencies you want to distort? Is this how distortion pedals work? I thought (admittedly with nothing to support my thinking and purely based on my nonsensical common sense) they were just preset to distort a certain frequency and then the amount of distortion depended on how much of that frequency you put into the pedal.

**DosiYanarchy** · #3 09-23-2009, 12:52 PM

i dont, but thats why id like a distortion with semi-parametric mids - so i can find the ones that work against my guitarists russian muff. our guitarist and drummer played as a two piece for a long time before i joined so our guitarist has kind of got used to filling out some of the bass frequencies.

The MXR blowtorch was great because it helped narrow down which frequencies seem to work better - its got 3 mid freqs to choose from 250hz, 750hz and 2khz - I personally found that 750hz sounded the best to me both on its own and with the band, but im looking for something a little more natural sounding and 9v, rather than 18v

Jazz Ad · #4 09-23-2009, 01:23 PM

Akai to the rescue once again.

bassman1185 · #5 09-23-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliftonBonney

Anyway, I can't really help you on your request. But, I was wondering, how do you know what frequency the guitar is in so that you can play in a different frequency?

In reference to your first question guitarists don't "play in a frequency," like it was a tuning, but they can accentuate certain frequencies that you can compliment with your bass tone.

There are basically two ways to do it. The most simple, but least accurate, is to simply listen while your guitarist is playing, boost your mids, and tweak the frequency of your midrange control till you find an area where the two of you don't overlap. This is obviously how to do it if you have a semi or fully parametric EQ section.

The second, more scientific way, is to get a real-time audio analyzer or RTA. I have one on my iPod Touch (the app was $10, and it is invaluable for me, since I am an A/V tech) or you can probably rent one from an A/V rental company. The one that my company has is fairly simple, and we rent it out for $35 a day. You might be able to find a cheap one on Ebay as well. What an RTA does is analyze the sound going into its reference mic, and display the readout on a graph, which is usually broken up into 1/3 octave increments. If you go this route, just aim the mic at your guitarist's amp, and have him play. Watch the display for a bit, and you'll see the frequencies that the guitar eats up, and which ones he leaves open. Boost and cut your EQ accordingly.

Now with either of these methods, you need to keep in mind that different distortion tones will eat up different frequencies, so you may need to plan accordingly. It is also not necessarily bad for the two of you to overlap, but it can muddy stuff up if you're both competing for the same sonic space.

**DosiYanarchy** · #6 09-23-2009, 01:41 PM

ooh, the g-drive looks pretty sweet, shame there arent many about these days

damn sliders though, actually kinda reminds me of the EHX Graphic fuzz!!! I had totally forgot! Although im kinda scared of having too many sliders without the capacity to save presets (like on the Pog II)

as far as the RTA thing goes, our drummer has something similar on his computer in the studio, i remember using it to look at the low end loss of a distortion pedal (and then used it to tweak the pedal to work on the live recording we did without the need to use excessive post-recording EQ). Its definitely a cool way to go. I dont really need to be overly scientific really its more just id like to be able to tweak the q around 750hz just to see whats more beneficial to our sound. I can find hundreds of fuzz/distortions that scoop the mids, and a more than few that have a full 3-band eq

Jazz Ad · #7 09-23-2009, 01:44 PM

WHat about using an EQ such as a Boss EQ-3B before (or after) your pedal to compensate?
It is basically what the G-Drive does.

bongomania · #8 09-23-2009, 01:48 PM

Also keep an eye out for the old Guyatone "Flip" series tube distortion. It has a semi-parametric mids control with a wide frequency range.

**DosiYanarchy** · #9 09-23-2009, 01:52 PM

well, im happy with my clean bass tone really, and i dont really want to a second pedal if i can help it - its kinda what happened with my 'jet phaker' idea: get the sound of a Roland Jet Phaser by having a fuzz and a phaser in an effects loop so i can turn them both on and off at the same time - ended up having 3 pedals for one sound, I use an EHX pedal bag so it just took up more space than i wanted to give up.

I'd much rather have one pedal - although with this i can compromise on space as theoretically it'll be my go-to distortion.

**DosiYanarchy** · #10 09-23-2009, 01:53 PM

cheers bongo, i remeber they used to do flip series bass driver too. I will certainly keep an eye out.

bongomania · #11 09-23-2009, 01:56 PM

Godlyke (the Guyatone distributor) keeps pulling old stock out of their closet and their repair bins, and selling it on Ebay. Might be worth your time to contact them directly and ask if they've got one laying about.

**DosiYanarchy** · #12 09-23-2009, 01:57 PM

cool, im just searching ebay worldwide - i think ive actually found godlyke and they're selling a Flip Bass comp - pretty damn cheap too!

**grygrx** · #13 09-23-2009, 02:43 PM

Likely too expensive

Curious: Keeley Boss MT-2 Twilight Zone Distortion

**DosiYanarchy** · #14 09-23-2009, 02:52 PM

yeah the microbassII is far too expensive, and plus id feel like a douche having something so versatile and only using for distortion, but if i can find one within my price range i'd definitely like to pick one up.

As for the MT2 - i've owned a stock one and seen your review of it and i wasnt impressed at all (with the pedal), i've seen a few modded MT2s (like the keeley Twilight mod) going for reasonable prices also. thanks for the suggestions, i'll see what i can grab a modded MT2 for.

CliftonBonney · #15 09-23-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman1185

In reference to your first question guitarists don't "play in a frequency," like it was a tuning, but they can accentuate certain frequencies that you can compliment with your bass tone.

There are basically two ways to do it. The most simple, but least accurate, is to simply listen while your guitarist is playing, boost your mids, and tweak the frequency of your midrange control till you find an area where the two of you don't overlap. This is obviously how to do it if you have a semi or fully parametric EQ section.

The second, more scientific way, is to get a real-time audio analyzer or RTA. I have one on my iPod Touch (the app was $10, and it is invaluable for me, since I am an A/V tech) or you can probably rent one from an A/V rental company. The one that my company has is fairly simple, and we rent it out for $35 a day. You might be able to find a cheap one on Ebay as well. What an RTA does is analyze the sound going into its reference mic, and display the readout on a graph, which is usually broken up into 1/3 octave increments. If you go this route, just aim the mic at your guitarist's amp, and have him play. Watch the display for a bit, and you'll see the frequencies that the guitar eats up, and which ones he leaves open. Boost and cut your EQ accordingly.

Now with either of these methods, you need to keep in mind that different distortion tones will eat up different frequencies, so you may need to plan accordingly. It is also not necessarily bad for the two of you to overlap, but it can muddy stuff up if you're both competing for the same sonic space.

Thanks for the education. This is something I'll have to look into. I never event thought about this.