Bass Micro Syth, Trapazoidal v. XO

Bassman203 · #1 08-19-2009, 02:46 PM

I've been tempted for a while to get the Bass Micro Synth, but I've heard some people talk about problems with the new xo version.

What are the main differences between the old and new BMS's? Is there that big of a difference that the size difference isn't a good enough reason to go with the xo version?

I would try them out myself, but I won't be able to get to a store where I can find both versions for awhile.

kevteop · #2 08-19-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassman203

What are the main differences between the old and new BMS's? Is there that big of a difference that the size difference isn't a good enough reason to go with the xo version?

The big old one sounds better. To some people it's not a big difference but to me, the old one sounds very good and the new one sounds a bit weak. The BMS is one of my favourite pedals and IMO the difference is a deal-breaker on the XO model. I sold mine and bought another old one.

Also the rate slider on the XO is stupid. And it doesn't look as good as the old one. And it smells. And it kicked my dog.

There's a fair bit of discussion on this topic if you search for it.

bigchiefbc · #3 08-19-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassman203

I've been tempted for a while to get the Bass Micro Synth, but I've heard some people talk about problems with the new xo version.

What are the main differences between the old and new BMS's? Is there that big of a difference that the size difference isn't a good enough reason to go with the xo version?

I would try them out myself, but I won't be able to get to a store where I can find both versions for awhile.

The cons against the big one are the size (8"x7" vs 4.75"x5.75" for the XO), power (24V vs 9V, although I believe the XO is still not daisy-chainable), and bypass (awful vs TBP, although I got my old one TBP-modded).

There have been significant amounts of discussion about sound differences, but I have not tried to the new one to comment. I believe the most common statements so far are that the new one has far touchier sliders (i.e. they slide too easily and are hard to zero in on a setting), and that both the rate slider and start/stop sliders do not cover the exact same range as the old one.

kevteop · #4 08-19-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

The cons against the big one are the size (8"x7" vs 4.75"x5.75" for the XO), power (24V vs 9V, although I believe the XO is still not daisy-chainable), and bypass (awful vs TBP, although I got my old one TBP-modded).

Yeah the 9v supply doesn't really help because you can't daisy-chain it, so you still need another psu. I also suspect the 9v supply might be the reason it doesn't sound as good. I also noticed that on very low notes (below open A) on the XO BMS the suboctave distorts. That doesn't happen on the old one.

As for the TBP mod on the old one, it's easy enough for someone who doesn't know anything about electronics (ie: me) to do unsupervised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

I believe the most common statements so far are ... that both the rate slider and start/stop sliders do not cover the exact same range as the old one.

I think they do cover the same "range" but the main beef with the rate slider is that a lot of the most useful part of the range is within about 1/4 of the slider's travel, making it a real pain to adjust. And as you said the sliders are fairly loose compared to the old one, compounding the problem.

The only slider (to my ears) which doesn't have the same range is the resonance slider, which seems to be capable of slightly humpier peaks than the old BMS.

RickenBoogie · #5 08-19-2009, 05:47 PM

Just goes to show ya, not everything that's "new" and "improved" is really "improved". Smaller does equal better in most cases, but only if no sacrifices were made to get smaller.

derrico1 · #6 08-19-2009, 05:55 PM

Horses for courses. I use my microsynth XO in a blend loop with a Hematoma and a Maxon autofilter. Sounds plenty fat.

Because it's in a bypass looper, the XO's improved bypass isn't a feature that matters much, but the smaller footprint definitely is

Chronicle · #7 08-19-2009, 06:13 PM

Don't really hear much of a difference. The pros of the smaller one out-weigh the need for the bigger one imo.

Bassman203 · #8 08-19-2009, 06:17 PM

For someone who hasn't owned or played either (at least for long enough to develop an opinion, I played the trapezoid once) is the difference one that matters? If it's just that the controls work differently (moving easier and adjusting at different rates) then I don't think I should worry about it.

gastric · #9 08-19-2009, 06:49 PM

Interesting thread. I have one of the GINORMOUS ones and it's silly big and hangs off one tier of my pedalboard and onto the next. I have a strong dislike for silly huge pedals.

Every square inch of board space is like precious gold.

kevteop · #10 08-19-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassman203

For someone who hasn't owned or played either (at least for long enough to develop an opinion, I played the trapezoid once) is the difference one that matters? If it's just that the controls work differently (moving easier and adjusting at different rates) then I don't think I should worry about it.

The difference in the sound is obvious, IMO. The old one has much more grunt.

That said, if you've nothing to really compare it with, you might be happy enough with the XO model. And it is easier to find one of those, I suppose.

I won't go as far as actually recommending it. Even if all the world's older model BMSs were destroyed in a freak accident tomorrow I wouldn't replace mine with an XO.

gastric · #11 08-19-2009, 07:11 PM

Which is odd considering the XO models sell used for about $50 or more over the older silly-huge units.

Bassman203 · #12 08-19-2009, 08:17 PM

Any one else have an opinion? Does the old on really sound better?

newbold · #13 08-19-2009, 10:58 PM

Get the old one, and get a power tank for your powerall.

If size really matters then get a different synth.

I love mine...but would love to trade it for a squier '51 slab P cause they're both about the same size, right?

oh well...

icarussmicarus · #14 08-20-2009, 12:10 AM

I don't really want to weigh into this same discussion again. But just to add balance to the debate, I used a trapezoid for about 4 months before buying a XO and decided the difference was minimal and the sliders just took a few days getting used to. I didn't choose based on size or power either. The XO sounds good.

Bassman203 · #15 08-23-2009, 02:32 PM

Anyone else? I'm trying to get opinions from a larger group of people so I can get more of a general consensus.

coreyfyfe · #16 08-23-2009, 02:53 PM

If you haven't owned or played the old one, they you won't have much of a baseline for comparison anyways so get the one that will fit your needs best. It seems to me that for the majority of people, especially the ones that aren't synth/filter fanatics, there is not enough difference between the two to cause any measurable concern. There will always be those who contend that the old version is better (not saying it is or isn't) any time a change is made in any pedal.

That being said, I owned the XO, having only demoed the old version once or twice, and had no complaints. I'd still have it if it hadn't been stolen.

moatilliatta · #17 08-26-2009, 07:23 PM

If any of you who feel the old one sounds better but have a new one I'll happily trade you....

neatobassman · #18 08-26-2009, 08:55 PM

None of the XO stuff sounds as good as the really big ones.

Han Solo · #19 08-27-2009, 12:04 AM

I own the XO. Having not owned the older one, I can't compare them - but I am extremely happy with the XO. The delicate control range is a bit of an issue but I think working out how to tweak them may be easier than spending the time sourcing a good quality old one (especially where I'm from). I think size does matter and if you can pretty much do the same thing with less of a footprint, then there is a justifiable market. The bypass on the XO is improved compared to the old ones from what sound clips I heard, but the XO's bypass is still not great. Also if you're ever thinking that it might be cool to mod it and allow for expression pedal control, from my research it can only be done to the old one.

Case in point, for a few sacrifices (of which I have no solid perspective), in my ignorance of the old unit, I am thoroughly satisfied and currently three months into what seems like a deep ocean of sounds.

kevteop · #20 08-27-2009, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

If you haven't owned or played the old one,they you won't have much of a baseline for comparison anyways so get the one that will fit your needs best.

Sonically, they both fit the same need. It's just that one does it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

It seems to me that for the majority of people, especially the ones that aren't synth/filter fanatics, there is not enough difference between the two to cause any measurable concern.

Why would the people who aren't synth/filter fanatics have a BMS at all? OK I'm forced to agree with this point. If you don't really want or need a BMS, get the XO. At least it will take up less space in your attic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

There will always be those who contend that the old version is better (not saying it is or isn't)

It is.