bass tuner (true bypass)

[Mr. BassmanPT]

i want to buy a tuner for my bass that is true bypass.

i have a boss multieffects console and i do not like to use it because even when i am in bypass mode, the sound is not the same when compared to a cable from the bass directly into the amplifier.

the differences in the sound are easily detected, when i use the boss console in bypass, the sound lacks the "usual" strength my bass has when i plug it directly into the amplifier.

so, i am looking for a simple tuner that provides a true bypass. i want this tuner to be able to cut the sound completely when i am tuning the bass. what do you guys advise me?

i do not know yet if i am looking for a foot pedal or one of those tuners that go under your amplifier (don't know how to call them).

don't worry about my budget, just let me know the best options out there!

regards

[bbocaner]

sonic research turbo tuner st-200 is awesome!

[bertbassplayer]

In Tuner Pedals, the best you can prob get is the Peterson Strobostomp. It'll run about $200.

Second to that the Korg Pitchblack ($80-90) and Planetwaves ($60) are true bypass options. I have the Planetwaves one and I personally don't like it. It's built EXTREMELY solid (it's really heavy for it's size) in everything except for the latch that holds the battery compartment shut... which is a small plastic notch which broke.

For Rack Tuners, the Korg DTR series are pretty standard, or you can go for the Peterson Stroborack.

[j.kernodle]

I'll second the recommendation for the Korg Pitchblack. Very solidly built, mutes when you're tuning, true bypass, very intuitive display with large easy to read indicators. And its available everywhere.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

i really liked what i read about those korg pitchblack pedals.. easy to use and well built. the korg dtr is awesome but i bet it costs a fortune. one thing i noticed is that both pedals (korg and peterson) had references to being 100% true bypass.

the racks didn't had any reference to being 100% true bypass. why is this? is it a common feature of racks being true bypass that is not even worth mentioning?


EDIT: read some reviews about the korg dtr2, the majority of reviewers state that it give a hum noise.

[gillento]

+ 1 on the turbo tuner st-200 and the Peterson StrobStomp

[cybersnyder]

Originally Posted by bbocaner

sonic research turbo tuner st-200 is awesome!

Get this one. I've had all the others mentioned. The Pitchblack is fine if you need to save a few dollars.

[Jefenator]

Another vote for Sonic Research. As robust, accurate and fast as you can get.

[Mr. BassmanPT]

i missed sonic st-200 post, i wonder why? bbocaner, you were the first to suggest it, sorry i missed it. just read bout it in the official site, it seems very good too.

will take a look in youtube reviews of all gear mentioned over here.

one more question. what is the main advantage of a rack tuner when compared to a pedal tuner? is the extra money worth it?

[bertbassplayer]

Originally Posted by cmaranhao

one more question. what is the main advantage of a rack tuner when compared to a pedal tuner? is the extra money worth it?

To answer your first question, I know the old DTRs (1+2) weren't true bypass I don't know about the 1000 and 2000s. Hum is usually eliminated because usually most people tend to take the tuner out from their head (if it has one) into the tuner instead of putting it out front like with a pedal tuner.

The advantages, is that it's always there, if you have a rack mounted amp it'll allow you to have everything in one box and not worry about having to deal with a pedal (that is if your not an effects user). Most people I've seen leave them on all the time. Is the extra money worth it? That's debatable.

[metalmariachi]

Just to add another 2 cents worth, I agree with the sonic ST-200.
I think mine is great, and easier (for me anyway) to use than the Peterson.

MM

[bbocaner]

Why the ST-200? It's the only true strobe tuner of all mentioned. (The petersons are a digital simulation of a strobe) It's built really well. It's very easy to use and read and not glitchy to tune with like the peterson. It's a lot more accurate than the korg. It's tiny and takes up almost no space on a pedalboard. It's easy on batteries. It's not too expensive. It's the complete package!

[Mr. BassmanPT]

Originally Posted by bertbassplayer

Hum is usually eliminated because usually most people tend to take the tuner out from their head (if it has one) into the tuner instead of putting it out front like with a pedal tuner.

The advantages, is that it's always there, if you have a rack mounted amp it'll allow you to have everything in one box and not worry about having to deal with a pedal (that is if your not an effects user). Most people I've seen leave them on all the time. Is the extra money worth it? That's debatable.

are you saying that i can plug the bass directly into the amplifier (this way there is nothing between my bass and the cabinet) and then connect the amplifier to the tuner using line out? does it work that way? if this is what you are explaining to me, then there is no possible way to have noises.

i don't want to have effects in the bass. i already have a digital console and do not like it. having that said, i would prefer to have everything in the rack to save me the boring task of mounting a pedal but only if it means i will have a "pure" sound.

Originally Posted by bbocaner

Why the ST-200? It's the only true strobe tuner of all mentioned. (The petersons are a digital simulation of a strobe) It's built really well. It's very easy to use and read and not glitchy to tune with like the peterson. It's a lot more accurate than the korg. It's tiny and takes up almost no space on a pedalboard. It's easy on batteries. It's not too expensive. It's the complete package!

why is it the only true strobe? and what is a strobe? sorry for all the questions lol. i've seen some youtube videos, lots of flashing lights in the sonic tuner. i think it is easier to tune with the mode1 of the korg but not knowing the strobe concept might be the reason for this. is the instrument tuned when the lights are frozen?

i have another question, can i plug the bass directly into the amplifier and then use the line out of the amplifier to this tuner? does it work that way?

[Mr. BassmanPT]

been reading articles on tuners all afternoon and i finally decided that i really want the turbo tuner ST200!! the only problem is that no one sells them here in Portugal.

do you have any clues? i want to buy one!

EDIT: just saw the little button about international shipments in the Sonic site.

Thanks for the help guys!

[4-string]

+1 to the Turbo Tuner. That being said, IMO all this talk about true bypass is a load of crap, a good buffered one is just as valid. In fact, I left the Korg DT-10 on my board for (most of my) live use. No true bypass, no pops.

Those who use passive basses probably benefit from a buffer in the chain anyways.

[FreaqyFrequency]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

Get this one. I've had all the others mentioned. The Pitchblack is fine if you need to save a few dollars.

A giant +1 here. To both statements.

[bbocaner]

Originally Posted by cmaranhao

why is it the only true strobe? and what is a strobe? sorry for all the questions lol. i've seen some youtube videos, lots of flashing lights in the sonic tuner. i think it is easier to tune with the mode1 of the korg but not knowing the strobe concept might be the reason for this. is the instrument tuned when the lights are frozen?

i have another question, can i plug the bass directly into the amplifier and then use the line out of the amplifier to this tuner? does it work that way?

Why is it the only true strobe? I don't know... because they are the only company that chose to engineer their product that way?

Here's how an old-school strobe tuner worked. There was a translucent disk with a pattern printed on it. The disk spun at a particular speed for the note you were trying to tune. Your audio signal was fed in the sound illuminated an extremely rapidly blinking (it'd blink in time with the peaks in the sound wave) "strobe" light that shone behind the disk. The interference pattern between the blinking light and the pattern printed on the spinning disk would light up a pattern on the wheel that you'd see stationary if you were perfectly in tune, or turning one way or another depending on if you were sharp or flat and faster or slower depending on how out you were.

Completely analog. Undeniably accurate, assuming the wheel was spinning at the right pace for the note you were tuning. If that pattern was stopped completely you were perfectly in tune. Period. No plus or minus fudge factor.

These are the tuners you see professional touring techs and instrument builders and tuning gurus using, and for a reason. They are extremely accurate and easy to read. There's no flickering or ambiguity back and forth about whether it is sharp or flat. It is completely immediate to respond to changes in frequency, so you can see very clearly if your pitch is changing, and quickly. But they are big and heavy and expensive.

The turbo tuner works a little differently because there is no spinning wheel, but I suspect it does something like rotate digitally around the ring of LEDs and only light them if there is an audio peak that coincides with when a particular LED is supposed to be on. It's not as good as the old spinning disk, but it is a true stroboscopic effect and it works very well.

The peterson virtual strobe simulates the stroboscopic effect. As I understand it, it generates a digital reference pitch and then uses the input audio signal to create an interference pattern with the reference signal, measures that, and then displays a fake pattern on the LCD screen that looks something like what you'd get from the old spinning disk technology, problem is it isn't a real stroboscopic effect, it's a bogus pattern they show you on the screen that represents what's happening from the real stroboscopic effect happening in a DSP chip -- so it's not quite as immediate as a real strobe. You aren't seeing the actual interference pattern, you're seeing a representation of that pattern. It works very well, and it's a great product, but it's not a real strobe. My chief complaint is that it's very touchy. It likes for you to play very softly, turn down all your treble when you tune, mute all the other strings extremely carefully, and then it still likes to flicker between different notes and back and forth between sharp and flat when in fact this is not what's happening in real life.

By the way, peterson is the last remaining manufacturer of the old school spinning disk gear, too -- so they DO know what they are doing and are a great company.

The LED or LCD tuners like the pitchblack and to some extent the needle tuners work a little differently. They take some period of time, like 1 second or half a second (they're all different, some are adjustable) and count the number of peaks in the audio input signal. It then compares this number against the number of peaks it should see in a perfectly tuned note and lights up a light depending on how close or far away you are. There are a couple of problems with this -- first, some engineer had to decide how close was close enough to light up the green or whatever. They can't make it exact or you'd never hit it -- it'd be green one second and then glitch back and forth between sharp and flat. So they decide that there is a +/- range of cycles that's close enough to be considered in-tune. The other problem with this is that since it uses an average, it doesn't take into account fluctuations in pitch well. This is why some of these tuners are much easier to use if you play the note, observe if it is sharp or flat, mute the note, adjust your tuning machine, then play the note again to see where they are. They just don't deal well with pitches that are changing.

Now, the pitchblack is an excellent one of these tuners. It works well and they've got it dialed in well for guitar and bass so that most of the disadvantages are gone, and it's a neat little package that fits well on a pedalboard and is easy to read, but it's still not a strobe tuner so you don't get that immediate and real look...

Also, yes, you should be able to take any pedal tuner and plug it into a line-out or tuner out on a head or preamp. You won't get the muting functionality this way, though.

[metalmariachi]

Bbocaner, very nice explanation and write up.

Thank you for the info.
MM

[Mr. BassmanPT]

yes, very nice explanation indeed. thanks for the lecture, i can now explain to the guitar player of my band why he needs one of these tuners!

regards

EDIT: does the sonic tuner makes the POP sound when used?

[bbocaner]

I've never noticed popping from it, but that might have more to do with the interaction between the pedals, your instrument, your cables, your amp, any other pedals you've got -- so your mileage may vary...