BBE Sonic Stomp - Maximizer clarification...

[Sundogue]

I've been reading the posts about the BBE Sonic Stomp (the pedal version of the Sonic Maximizer) and there are some misconceptions about what it does and how it does it.

I've used it in the past, and am using it again and the pedal does do it's job, but many are ill-informed on what it's job is. I'll try to sum it up as best as possible and hopefully those that use it can use it to it's best "effect", and maybe those that don't like it, can see why they might want to give it another try.

First of all, the purpose of the Sonic Stomp (or Maximizer for those rack mount users) is to balance how you hear the frequencies coming from your speakers. It will not boost or cut frequencies like an EQ, but rather it will delay certain frequencies to remove the muddy or distorted sound you may hear.

Low frequencies have larger and longer sound waves than higher frequencies, so what comes from your speakers is that the mids and highs (having smaller and shorter sound waves that travel faster) will get to your ear before the lows do. This causes the perception that your lows may be lacking, when in truth they are just naturally slow in coming at you. What most bass players do then is boost the low end (or cut the highs) which affects your tone. What the Sonic Maximizer does is delay the higher frequencies to compensate for the low end soundwave's natural delay and get all the frequencies to "match up" so you hear them all at the same time. It is similar to Roland's combos speaker analyzer, only the BBE reads the input prior to going to your speakers and the Roland reads the speaker output. Either way works because the speakers only do what the output to them tells them to do.

Instead of thinking of the Maximizer as an EQ (which it is not) think of it as a delay pedal, but only delaying certain frequencies to get all frequencies to line up.

It is not to EQ anything, so the misconception of it sucking out your mids and only boosting the low end and highs are somewhat incorrect. It can do that, but only if you do not employ the pedal properly or (my guess) it's that those who think it sucks mids, are not putting it last in the chain. Also, if you like that mid-hump and boost the mids to stand out in the mix, the BBE will delay those mids more to balance it out. If you don't like that, dial it back or bypass the unit (that's what the controls are for). It's all about using it properly for the effect you are after. It's not a full-on/full-off kind of thing.

The best way to "maximize" (pun intended) the BBE's capabilities is to have it be the last thing in the signal chain before the power amp. It can only correct what it recieves, so if you put it before other effects, the preamp or before an EQ you are not using it to full effect. It will delay the frequencies based on what it receives (and what you dial in) and if the tone controls or EQ are after it, you are then overriding it's purpose.

This isn't an EQ pedal and it's not voodoo. It will do it's job based on the signal coming into it and how you dial it in and that's all. People ask, "How does it know what room you are playing in?". It doesn't know...it is just reading what it's being fed through the signal chain and that's it. Put it last in the chain (right before the power amp...use the effects loop on an amp if that is only way you can do it), and it should tighten up your sound without sucking the mids out. If you still think it sucks the mids out, perhaps when all the frequencies are aligned, the mids were too prominent (based on the signal, not what you hear) prior to the BBE doing it's job.

Oh...and like any other piece of equipment (like a compressor for example), it is best used judiciously. The complaints about the BBE are similar to the complaints about compressors. A little goes a long way. I would say that if your sound is already perfect (as in small rooms, low volumes, practice settings) you don't need it, and might not notice much of an effect when employed. That's why it has a bypass switch. Some places you may not need it and some you play might benefit by using it to tighten up your sound.

If all you want is more low end, get a different amp or cab. This pedal's only purpose is to maximize what you already have, thus it's name...Sonic Maximizer.

[KromaatiKlauun]

Thanx for the info man

[Sundogue]

You're welcome. I'm no sound engineer and I don't work for BBE. I use the Sonic Stomp, but I am careful what I do with it and some places I don't use it at all.

My band has the full rack mount Maximizer for the PA and it really tightens up our sound...a lot.

It isn't a cure all and it isn't for everyone. But some people want that "magic" box that somehow cures deficient rigs. It might make a less than ideal rig sound a bit better, but it will make an awesome rig that much better depending on the venues where it could benefit.

[Swift713]

I found it really helped clear up my tone at band practice with an over loud drummer. At that volume my low end was getting lost and muddy, the Sonic Stomp fixed it. It didn't change my tone, it brought it back.

[almix12]

although, presumably how far away from the speaker(s) would hugely impact it's effect. Since it's effectively speeding up the lows in comparison to the mids and highs which it is, in truth, delaying, if you were a ways away from the speaker wouldn't the lows get to you effectively too fast? Thus colouring your sound in a different *tries to think of the negative opposite of mudd* way?

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by almix12

although, presumably how far away from the speaker(s) would hugely impact it's effect. Since it's effectively speeding up the lows in comparison to the mids and highs which it is, in truth, delaying, if you were a ways away from the speaker wouldn't the lows get to you effectively too fast? Thus colouring your sound in a different *tries to think of the negative opposite of mudd* way?

Of course, your rig will sound different when standing next to it than it will when you are twenty feet away. Again, it only adjusts to what the input is...it doesn't analyze the environment and adjust on the fly. No rig, no matter what kind of amp or effects you have will ever sound the same relative to changing distance or angle from your speakers.

With regards to the Sonic Stomp, you can't adjust it to sound good standing up close to your cabs, and then expect it to also sound the same twenty feet away. That's where the controls come in. You just need to adjust it to where it sounds good based on your relative place onstage. It can't follow you around and adjust on the fly. This isn't for those who always play on huge stages and the bass player runs all over the place. No piece of equipment can do much about the sound in that regards.

I'll give you an example of what the BBE Sonic Stomp does for me. For a long time, regardless of what bass or what rig I used onstage, if I got my low end to sound full and tight, the mids or high end always seemed weak. If I got my mids and high end to stand out (standing out in the mix of the band), then my low end just sounded weak. With the BBE Sonic Stomp, it all sounds even all across the spectrum. Now my low end sounds full but tight, and the mids and the highs have great clarity and seem just as loud and full as the low end. For me, it solves the old perplexing problem of what sounds good at home doesn't cut through onstage, you know? Well...now it does. That same old "Don't use a smiley EQ, and boost your mids, even if it sounds "honky" because then you'll cut through the mush onstage" thing. It's like having that studio quality sound onstage. It sounds sweet and yet still cuts through...and it doesn't without the BBE.

But then again, I don't use the BBE to boost my low end, I use it to find the sweet spot of sonic bliss at every venue. I've read where guys like to set both controls to 1:00 and they leave it. At every place they play? It's not a simple set it and forget it kind of device. The controls are there for a reason. One needs to understand what it does and how to use it properly to achieve the best it has to offer.

[scotch]

Normally, I would be posting something antithetical in this thread. This time, however, I'm at least going to give Sundogue some "props" for a well written & thought out thread on what the Sonic Maximizer is supposed to be doing.

While these types of "effects" have proven to be of little use or value to me; and that I find the claim of trying to "align" waveforms over an undetermined listening distance to be a little suspect - I still cannot fault anyone for having found the BBE processing useful for their own purposes! To each their own signal path!!!

A good thread, Sundogue.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by scotch

Normally, I would be posting something antithetical in this thread. This time, however, I'm at least going to give Sundogue some "props" for a well written & thought out thread on what the Sonic Maximizer is supposed to be doing.

While these types of "effects" have proven to be of little use or value to me; and that I find the claim of trying to "align" waveforms over an undetermined listening distance to be a little suspect - I still cannot fault anyone for having found the BBE processing useful for their own purposes! To each their own signal path!!!

A good thread, Sundogue.

Thanks...I think.

It isn't undetermined though. Again, most people seem to think (erroneously) that this is some kind of magic box that analyzes a room and adjusts on the fly as if it has a mind of it's own. The operator is the one who determines the process.

It is up to the bass player to use the controls to find the sweet spot for a given environment and place on stage. It has to be dialed in each and every time you play. That's what irks me about these guys who set it and forget it and claim it's God's gift to bass. It's not. It's a fairly simple device one needs to know how to use properly. One can certainly mess up their sound with it, just as easily.

I can certainly understand your feelings about it, given all the misinformation about it...and it's cool if you don't use it. Sometimes I don't use it either as I don't always need it. I just use the bypass button when my rig sounds fine in a room as is. As is so often said, you can't polish a turd, so if someone thinks the BBE will turn their piece of crap rig into something it's not...it won't.

[scotch]

That does make sense. The Maximizer cannot change the fact that longer wavelengths (low frequencies) travel slower than the shorter wavelengths. So, the best the BBE theory could hope to accomplish is to sweeten the sound for the user, not necessarily the audience (depending upon circumstances, of course).

Also, how is BBE only charging $99 for a dual, filtered, frequency-specific digital delay (analog delay would clearly cost far more...)? That's the real miracle!

I tend to believe the published specs from BBE:
Lo Contour +12dB @ 50Hz
Process +12dB @ 10kHz

Looks suspiciously like a boost-only shelving eq to me (net result: mid-scoop), which is great! But let's not pour any fairy-dust on it though. Are the highs and lows really being time-delayed so precisely for $99?

[Swift713]

sounds like a job for myth-busters

[scotch]

Originally Posted by Swift713

sounds like a job for myth-busters

Agreed! I wish their was an audio myth-busters!


I think BBE made my point for me (unless their published specs are some sort of trick). The controls on the Sonic Stomp have no effect upon any sort of "time delay". Instead, BBE has renamed two simple eq boost controls with the labels "Lo Contour" and "Process". That doesn't mean there cannot be anything else going on internally - but I doubt it.

If I relabel and market my Chorus pedal as: "A proprietary phase-realigning processor that brings out the inherent swirliness of your tone, that was always there, but masked by phase alignment issues!", it may change the sound in a way I find favorable, but it's still a chorus pedal!

[slyjoe]

They use a phase shift on higher order frequencies. Think of it as a small time delay. Here is a white paper on it from BBE:

http://www.bbesound.com/technologies...DS/BBE_HDS.pdf

A little too much marketing in it for my taste as a scientific paper, but it may give you a better idea of what the process is doing.

Edit: and just an FYI, the speed of propagation of a sound wave in air is not affected by frequency until you get over about 28KHz.

[Thangfish]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

I've been reading the posts about the BBE Sonic Stomp (the pedal version of the Sonic Maximizer) and there are some misconceptions about what it does and how it does it.

I've used it in the past, and am using it again and the pedal does do it's job, but many are ill-informed on what it's job is.

- snip -

It will not boost or cut frequencies like an EQ, but rather it will delay certain frequencies to remove the muddy or distorted sound you may hear.

Low frequencies have larger and longer sound waves than higher frequencies, so what comes from your speakers is that the mids and highs (having smaller and shorter sound waves that travel faster) will get to your ear before the lows do.

- snip -

---

Actually, that's not at all what it does, according to BBS.
It's quite the opposite.
Maybe the the "ill-informed" among us should not be the ones trying to bestow the blessings of BBE Sonic Maximizer upon us?

---

From BBE_HDS.pdf

Speakers have a tendency of delaying higher frequencies -snip-

Instead of simply boosting the high frequencies, BBE first time-aligns the frequency spectrum by delaying the mid and low frequencies -snip-

BBE divides the frequency band into three. The low frequency range is below 145Hz, mid range is 145Hz to 2.5KHz and the high frequency range is over 2.5KHz. Most of fundamental frequencies are inside the mid frequency range, and the higher harmonics are in the high frequency range. The low and mid frequency ranges are delayed 2.5mS and 0.5mS (smooth linear delay with no steps) respectively compared to the high frequency range. The high frequency range is not delayed. Therefore the higher frequencies reach the ear before the fundamentals as they do in natural live sound. -snip-

BBE processors have a low contour boost function, which boosts 50Hz area in a linear fashion up to 145Hz. Although this boost is not VCA controlled, it has a progressively longer delay as frequencies become lower. It gives a 2.5mS delay at 20Hz compared to the higher frequencies -snip-


---
While this method MAY have merit when processing MP3 and Dolby Digital, it made my rig sound decidedly worse.

Yeah, yeah, to each his own, and YMMV.

[RCCollins]

My guitarist has one of these. I've tried it with various combinations of amps & cabs, in a few different spots, at assorted settings.

My favorite is "off"

[WJGreer]

I am not sure what the Sonic Stomp pedal does, but I have one and am addicted to it. It seems to liven up my tone, no matter what bass I am playing or through what amp. Every now and then I leave behind my pedalboard (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not) and play a gig without the BBE. I miss it the whole night!

[ryan(MAIDEN)]

i coulda swore it just removed that blanket that was over my speakers.... hahahaha i love my sonic maximizer but it seems im like the only person who notices the difference in it being on and off

[ibnzneksrul]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Low frequencies have larger and longer sound waves than higher frequencies, so what comes from your speakers is that the mids and highs (having smaller and shorter sound waves that travel faster) will get to your ear before the lows do.

Quoted from this link...
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2c.html

Speed = Wavelength • Frequency
<snip>
The above equation is useful for solving mathematical problems related to the speed, frequency and wavelength relationship. However, one important misconception could be conveyed by the equation. Even though wave speed is calculated using the frequency and the wavelength, the wave speed is not dependent upon these quantities. An alteration in wavelength does not affect (i.e., change) wave speed. Rather, an alteration in wavelength affects the frequency in an inverse manner. A doubling of the wavelength results in a halving of the frequency; yet the wave speed is not changed. The speed of a sound wave depends on the properties of the medium through which it moves and the only way to change the speed is to change the properties of the medium.

Having never used the Sonic Maximizer I can't comment on the effect it has, but I have no reason to doubt the word of the folks who swear by it.

But it would seem the premise that higher audio freqs travel faster than lows through the air is up for debate.

[vin*tone]

Originally Posted by ibnzneksrul

Quoted from this link...
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2c.html


Having never used the Sonic Maximizer I can't comment on the effect it has, but I have no reason to doubt the word of the folks who swear by it.

But it would seem the premise that higher audio freqs travel faster than lows through the air is up for debate.

Has nothing to do with the speed of the frequencies. BBE are saying that by pushing the high freq's out first the brain has a better handle on the perception of the sound.

[Godbody]

Aside from the science of this device, I had an opportunity to play with one recently. A big group of musicians got together in a basement practice space and jammed for an even bigger group of friends. I brought my stack, since nobody else has one.

There was one other bass player, he was far more talented than me, played a MIM jazz and used the Sonic Stomp, his only effect. His hands definitely provided some sweet tone, his chops were beyond any criticism.

When I grabbed my Jag and got up to play, I didn't have time to set up my pedalboard, not even my compressor, which I always leave on. I played through a few songs (faked my way, actually....didn't know the songs), and I thought something was way off. Then I noticed his Sonic Stomp was still on, and I turned it off. After that, I got lots of compliments on how good my rig sounded, and the tone I pulled out of it, if not my actual talent.

I never told the other player that his pedal wasn't so hot with my rig, cuz he was in love with it. Besides, why not let myself sound better when there's a few hot girls watching...?

[Chronicle]

Thanks for that, i just recently put a BBE sonic stomp on my pedal display at work, I knew what it does, but never had the right words... now i do!