Beatles sound?

Kudos1994 · #1 03-18-2011, 10:21 AM

In the song Helter Skelter, the bass sounds so unique yet I don't know where it came from. I didn't think it was an effect, maybe the bass itself? Thanks.

Easy8 · #2 03-18-2011, 10:32 AM

That's John on a Fender Bass VI. Play with pick through a cranked tube amp. Dig in and pick hard.
YouTube - "Helter Skelter" by The Beatles (Isolated Bass)

iamthebassman · #3 03-18-2011, 10:41 AM

Hey Easy8, you're in Austin, ever seen The Eggmen?

Easy8 · #4 03-18-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamthebassman

Hey Easy8, you're in Austin, ever seen The Eggmen?

I know you guys by reputation. By the way, we're facebook "friends". I've played in a couple of bands with your "Woodstock" drummer.

iamthebassman · #5 03-18-2011, 10:49 AM

Craig? He just had a birthday.

major10th · #6 03-18-2011, 10:54 AM

In the book Beatles Gear, is states on page 229:

"The final version recorded on the 9th, featured very heavily distorted electric guitars, drums, and piano. ..... The next day Lennon added bass using a Fender VI."

On this page about the Fender VI bass, it states:

"Both George Harrison and John Lennon used the six-string Fender bass on the White Album, Let It Be, and Abbey Road (McCartney stuck to the Hofner, Rickenbacker and 4-string Fender Jazz Bass.)"

From Recording The Beatles:

- page 47: Ken Scott was the Abbey Road balance engineer
- page 57: Chris Thomas was the producer
- page 497: John on bass (track #1 of the EMI 8-track)

FretlessMainly · #7 03-18-2011, 10:57 AM

It is John (although Paul had a penchant for going back and either adding or replacing bass parts of his own on tracks where he played guitar or piano), but I'm almost certain that it's on the right-handed Jazz Bass not the VI. The Beatles obtained (not sure if they purchased or were sent by Fender) both RH and LH tobacco sunburst Fender Jazz basses in 1968.

Compare the sound of the bass on Helter Skelter to that on While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Glass Onion and Yer Blues. The latter three are Paul on LH Jazz. To my ears, the part in Helter Skelter has that same thunk. I don't know that the Fender Bass VI quite goes there, but you never know w/ the Beatles.

Edit: To major10th's post above, I know that there are many sources of this type of information out there and there are many contradictions within those sources. And, of course, some sources are more reputable than others. Babuik is pretty good; Lewisohn is also pretty good but some errors have been documented there, and you would think that he would get things pretty close. I've reviewed about 10-12 sources regarding "who played bass on what and what bass did they use," and I had to disseminate all the information and then use my ears to supplement the disparate information and/or opinion in these sources. I may well be wrong about this one, but I just wanted to explain how I arrived at Helter Skelter being a Jazz and not a Bass VI.

major10th · #8 03-18-2011, 11:11 AM

Lennon with Fender VI bass

major10th · #9 03-18-2011, 11:41 AM

I have no concrete evidence, either way, but I tend to trust what brainwashed said in this thread from the Steve Hoffman Music Forums:

Helter Skelter Multitracks (see posts 66, 67, and 73).

FretlessMainly · #10 03-18-2011, 11:46 AM

Good read; just adds to the overall confusion on what really happened.

I'm certainly not saying that John didn't use the Bass VI; he and/or George used it on Birthday, Back in the USSR, Let it Be, Long and Winding Road, Maxwell's Silver Hammer and likely a few others. I'll have to check my references when I get home. I don't recall seeing a photo of John w/ a RH Jazz, but I know that I came to the conclusion that it was a Jazz for good reason. I have actually researched this for a couple of years.

major10th · #11 03-18-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

Good read; just adds to the overall confusion on what really happened.

I'm certainly not saying that John didn't use the Bass VI; he and/or George used it on Birthday, Back in the USSR, Let it Be, Long and Winding Road, Maxwell's Silver Hammer and likely a few others. I'll have to check my references when I get home. I don't recall seeing a photo of John w/ a RH Jazz, but I know that I came to the conclusion that it was a Jazz for good reason. I have actually researched this for a couple of years.

100%, it would be interesting to hear about some of your findings. Again, I have no clue, and I'm not trying to make a case for John playing the Fender VI. It just seems to be the most accepted consensus.

FretlessMainly · #12 03-18-2011, 07:18 PM

Here are the main sources I've used:

Bacon, T. 2006. "Paul McCartney Playing the Great Beatles Basslines," Backbeat Books.
Dowlding, W.J. 1989. "Beatlesongs," Fireside/Simon & Schuster, Inc., New York.
Everett, W. 1999. "The Beatles as Musicians, Revolver through the Anthology,"Oxford University Press, New York, Oxford.
Lewisohn, M. 1988. "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions," The Hamlyn Publishing Group Limited, a Division of The Octopus Publishing Group plc, London.
Rolling Stone. 2010. "The Beatles 100 Greatest Songs," Special Collector's Edition. Jann S. Wenner, Editor and Publisher.
Shea, S. and R. Rodriguez. 2007. "Fab Four FAQ," Hal Leonard Books, New York.

I've also consulted Andy Babiuk's book "Beatles Gear," although that doesn't tie the instruments into specific songs the way some of the other references do.

Of those I've listed, they all seem to have inconsistencies even within themselves, and certainly between themselves. I put the most creedence in Everett, Lewisohn and the Rolling Stone article (I actually found this at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta while I was deeply immersed in this research). Shea and Rodriguez seem pretty good as well (based on what I thought I already knew), but they don't provide any references to their statements. Dowlding is often pretty far off (but cites various good references such as interviews with John, Paul and George for several of his more accurate claims). Bacon is a transcription of several of Paul's Bass parts, so it has some good info, but it is limited in this application because it is only for tunes Paul played bass on.

Walter Everett claims that John used the Fender Jazz bass on Helter Skelter. Lewisohn says John played, but doesn't specify the bass. Bacon says it's either John or Paul on Bass VI (???) and Dowlding says it's John and Paul (I may believe that!) but doesn't specify the bass. Babiuk, however, indicates that the right-handed Jazz arrived at the beginning of '69.

So, we basically have Everett vs. Babuik, w/ some indication of John on Bass VI. I coupled this available information with my ears and what I know about the Bass VI (it is a fairly mellow instrument; more like a baritone guitar than a bass) and concluded that it's John on a RH Jazz. Then again, would Lennon have felt commfortable doing those fairly quick descending runs on what would seem like a very widely-spaced neck on what also would have been a new instrument to him? Maybe not.

You know, maybe. Maybe not. I will say that it was just tonight that I saw in Babuik's book that the RH Jazz apparently/allegedly arrived in early '69. So, we have to decide if Babiuk is correct or if Everett is correct. This is the sort of problem I typically run into. I consider both Everett and Babiuk to be pretty well-researched and reliable sources. But one of them is wrong. I was just trying to explain how I had arrived at the conclusion I had posted earlier today. Now, I'm not so sure. But, my ears tell me it's a Jazz. And I'm 99.9999% sure it's John.