Best unit for tone improvement

walknbluez · #1 07-26-2008, 12:38 PM

I have a SWR Workingman 4004 (400 watt at 4 ohms) with a 4 ohm 2x12 Avatar cab. Prior to the Avatar cab I had an 8 ohm SWR 1x15 and it was lacking some volume but mostly lacking a good tone. It was suggested to get a 4 ohm cab to get the full wattage out of the head. I did this and I like the cab but it seems that tone is still lacking (as well as some volume....I have the gain at 1 oclock and the volume at 1 o'clock).

Some have suggested a Sansamp. Is this the best solution vs. a pedalboard with multiple cab models (which help improve tone right?). What is the best thing I can get for a small outdoor gig that is exactly one week from today (7/26)?

**grygrx** · #2 07-26-2008, 01:14 PM

Maybe try some 10 inch speakers. A 4*10 maybe?

Tone is bass -> amp -> cab in my opinion. Effects just dress up the core, if the core is no good... it might not help.

JehuJava · #3 07-26-2008, 01:16 PM

What about an external pre-amp? Maybe the Aggie 924 (my fave) or the demeter or sadowsky? I use an SWR Super Redhead and use the 924 to mellow everything out.

walknbluez · #4 07-26-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grygrx

Maybe try some 10 inch speakers. A 4*10 maybe?

Tone is bass -> amp -> cab in my opinion. Effects just dress up the core, if the core is no good... it might not help.

Arrggg! I just bought the 4 ohm 2x12 Avatar!

walknbluez · #5 07-26-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grygrx

Maybe try some 10 inch speakers. A 4*10 maybe?

Tone is bass -> amp -> cab in my opinion. Effects just dress up the core, if the core is no good... it might not help.

I've heard a sansamp can make the core come to life, though, no?

Crabby · #6 07-26-2008, 03:41 PM

The sans Amp could quite possibly help out a lot and would provide a nice DI signal to the PA. But in the end, I think you need your tone to come from the bass, amp and cabs to truly be happy with your sound.

Its been said for many years that a Sans Amp will make an ok rig sound very good but doesn't do much for a rig that already sounds fantastic.

walknbluez · #7 07-26-2008, 03:47 PM

I have a MIM fender jazz bass, an SWR Workingmans 4004, and the Avatar 2x12. So if I had to guess, I'm going to guess the weak link is the amp.

RickenBoogie · #8 07-26-2008, 03:47 PM

It's all true. If you're not happy with your tone, it's either your bass, amp, or cab. BUT, you can make it somewhat better with a preamp pedal, either the Sansamp or any number of other preamp pedals. Because I just got one and love it, I'll suggest a Barber Linden EQ pedal. Simple and effective. Or, you could try a BBE Sonic Stomp, or an MXR M80, and on and on. It's not a cure, but rather a band-aid fix, but it's alot faster and cheaper than buying a new bass or amp.

tomvelsor · #9 07-26-2008, 03:49 PM

best unit for tone improvement is a better bass

i know thats not what you want to hear, but unfourtunately it might be true.

walknbluez · #10 07-26-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomvelsor

best unit for tone improvement is a better bass

i know thats not what you want to hear, but unfourtunately it might be true.

Like what? I'm open to it.

ryansalmond · #11 07-26-2008, 03:56 PM

Aphex Bass Xciter
Electro Harmonix Knockout
Electro Harmonix Steel Leather
Ashdown bass compressor (under-rated)

walknbluez · #12 07-26-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

It's all true. If you're not happy with your tone, it's either your bass, amp, or cab. BUT, you can make it somewhat better with a preamp pedal, either the Sansamp or any number of other preamp pedals. Because I just got one and love it, I'll suggest a Barber Linden EQ pedal. Simple and effective. Or, you could try a BBE Sonic Stomp, or an MXR M80, and on and on. It's not a cure, but rather a band-aid fix, but it's alot faster and cheaper than buying a new bass or amp.

Basically that is what I'm looking for right now, a band-aid. I don't mind buying another amp at some point but I don't want to rush it.

However, with all the different sansamps available, it is hard to choose.

walknbluez · #13 07-26-2008, 11:10 PM

I was talking to another musician/bass player today and he said he thinks the weak link in my setup is basically the pickups on the jazz bass and suggested changing the neck pickup to a precision pickup (I think that's what he said) but he said that you have to cut the body to fit it in. Does that sound right? I was thinking to myself that I may as well buy a P-bass rather than do that.

bongomania · #14 07-26-2008, 11:18 PM

Yeah, he's right that you'd have to do some routing (cutting) in the body to fit the P pup. I wouldn't bother with that much trouble considering how plentiful PJ basses are.

However the idea that you would need a P pup to get good tone is silly too. The MIM Jazz pups are not great, but you could easily install better-quality Jazz pups. Just depends where you want to allocate your funds.

fireincairo · #15 07-26-2008, 11:20 PM

Maybe a MXR Dynacomp? Or an Xotix Bass RC Booster?

Ampeg SVT · #16 07-26-2008, 11:22 PM

I use a Aphex Bass Exciter, it is awesome if you know how to use it

GreyBeard · #17 07-26-2008, 11:27 PM

Don't worry about the 1:00 position of the volume knob. As long as the amp isn't clipping it doesn't matter where the gain knob is. Crank it up to where you get the volume you need and with 400 watts a a 2x12 cab you should be able to get the volume you need. I would think that your amp should have enough EQ to dial in any tone you want without pedals. Pedals for me add nice effects but your basic tone should come from your amp uneffected. (jmho)

bongomania · #18 07-26-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walknbluez

...a pedalboard with multiple cab models (which help improve tone right?). What is the best thing I can get for a small outdoor gig that is exactly one week from today (7/26)?

Sorry I just noticed this last bit. Multiple cab models will not improve your tone. IMO, sure, but I'm dead serious. Now I'm not just bashing digital fx or amp modeling overall, they can be used very effectively in the right context, if you know what you're doing. But as an easy panacea for "good tone", no. They're more likely to F up your tone, especially since you only have a week to acquire the thing and learn how to use it.

Maybe you don't have time to upgrade your pickups or buy a new bass, depending on what resources you have available (i.e. well-stocked instrument stores, helpful experts at the shop who aren't out to rip you off, a friend who solders well, etc.).

So my answer is if you buy anything at all, make sure it is dead simple. Two knobs, maybe three. Make sure you understand exactly what it does. No menus, no tiny LCD screens. No fancy stuff, nothing extra, don't get reeled in by the promise of 300 of the finest tones on Earth.

If I was in your shoes, I'd probably buy a tube preamp pedal, the best I could afford. Tubes are also no guarantee of good tone (nothing is), but that would be my first line of attack. A tube pre will also contribute a small amount of compression, which can be a nice tone fattening quality. Note that some tube pedals are meant for general tone shaping, and some are meant for buzzy distortion. Be sure of which kind you are looking at when shopping.

walknbluez · #19 07-27-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyBeard

Don't worry about the 1:00 position of the volume knob. As long as the amp isn't clipping it doesn't matter where the gain knob is. Crank it up to where you get the volume you need and with 400 watts a a 2x12 cab you should be able to get the volume you need. I would think that your amp should have enough EQ to dial in any tone you want without pedals. Pedals for me add nice effects but your basic tone should come from your amp uneffected. (jmho)

Well the other thing he told me which I found weird is he said to actually put the volume all the way up and put the gain at only 2 or 3. I always thought you put the gain up right to the point where the clipping light went on, then adjusted the volume.

bongomania · #20 07-27-2008, 12:08 AM

You're more right than he was.