Black Russian Big Muff vs. Bass Big Muff

OhValhalla · #1 08-12-2011, 05:30 PM

Could someone give me a rundown of the pros and cons of each? I've only used the older 70's muffs and always loved their sound, just hated the mid-scoop that destroyed the volume in a mix. Do either of these pedals still have that mid scoop?

Or alternatively, suggest me a pedal that is near in price and sound to these muffs, but has decent mids retention.

Many thanks!

IPA · #2 08-12-2011, 05:33 PM

I have never have any issue with mids through my USA big muff-- I leave the tone knob at 12 o'clock, it's got a nice mid punch without losing too much bass or treble. Perfect.

ZanaZulu807 · #3 08-12-2011, 05:36 PM

Black all the way. The bass big muff is based on the old green Russian muffs which were later changed into the more modern black muffs. IMO, the bass big muff was a failed muff, dry signal feature was okay to retain some of your tone but it was still a fairly crappy pedal.

Modern alternative with mids: Blackout Effectors Musket.

OhValhalla · #4 08-12-2011, 05:37 PM

May just be me or the band settings I play in then, but I always found that the mids basically drop out on the USA style Muffs.

**jmattbassplaya** · #5 08-12-2011, 05:39 PM

Black all the way. It's not even close once you play the two against each other.

OhValhalla · #6 08-12-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Black all the way. It's not even close once you play the two against each other.

Does the black have the same mid scoop as the USA's, or do you find that it is at least lessened?

Thanks for all the quick and helpful replies!

**jmattbassplaya** · #7 08-12-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhValhalla

Does the black have the same mid scoop as the USA's, or do you find that it is at least lessened?

Thanks for all the quick and helpful replies!

To my ear it still has a scoop but it's no where near as bad as the BBM and other US models. I can hear myself quite clearly when I use it in my band. I couldn't hear myself at all when I use to have the BBM. Plus it just flat out sounds better.

spaz21387 · #8 08-12-2011, 05:52 PM

wren and cuff tall font russian... or black russian. I love my black russian but have been gassing over the wren and cuff tall font russian.

ZanaZulu807 · #9 08-12-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

To my ear it still has a scoop but it's no where near as bad as the BBM and other US models. I can hear myself quite clearly when I use it in my band. I couldn't hear myself at all when I use to have the BBM. Plus it just flat out sounds better.

This.

IMO, minus the "Civil War" and "Triangle" Big Muffs, all Muffs are naturally mid scooped. The problem with the Civil War and Triangle Muff's is that they lack the big fat booty bottom end the Russians have. Another reason why the Russians are better, IMO, is that they are WAY more aggressive than the US or Bass Big Muff; That is, of course, if aggressiveness is your thing. The Black eats the Bass and US Muff for dinner, breakfast, and brunch...

Forgot to point out that the reason I hated the Bass Big Muff is that it sounded like a crappy imitator when AB'd to the Russian. The Russian has this HUGE wall of sound going for it and the Bass Big Muff just lacks the nuts....

Heatmonger · #10 08-12-2011, 06:43 PM

FYI, Metrobass is selling an indy modded black russian with a mid-boost: FS: Couple of EHX Black Russian Muffs

Looks like it's still available. I was going to go for it but I got a good deal on a Black Art Toneworks Pharaoh instead.

bigchiefbc · #11 08-12-2011, 08:37 PM

Blackout Musket. Based on the russian muff, has a mids knob, has some major bollocks

FrigginChris · #12 08-12-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

Blackout Musket. Based on the russian muff, has a mids knob, has some major bollocks

huge +1 there, I LOVE my musket.

IMO you are much better off with the clones built by some of the more "boutique" effects guys than the standard EHX muffs.

skullservant · #13 08-19-2011, 01:12 PM

The Green is a bit more mid-scooped but the Black doesnt have as much growl unless you mod it

dan_doh · #14 08-19-2011, 06:46 PM

What's with the hate to the big muff? I used to play it in a band situation and it was ok. I remember when i bought the pedal it was because people here recomended it. What's changed?

skullservant · #15 08-19-2011, 06:51 PM

I certainly don't hate either of mine, they just both have their differences. I've always got at least one of them on my board at all times

Laurent · #16 08-20-2011, 09:30 AM

Well that's a loaded question which will ignite lots of passion and opinions!

First: which Black Russian Muff? There are differences between the different versions and even within the same version you may hear some differences. If you are thinking about the last Russian Muff put out, the version 8 it is very close to the Bass Muff. I A/B them and the differences were subtle. I prefered the tone of the Bass Muff overall. The Bass Muff accepts 9 v adaptors, does not take as much room as the Black Russian, is cheaper and does many more things. It has 3 distincts tones. For the money the Bass Muff is an incredible value and will get it done. Is it scooped, yes but it's the nature of the beast. I A/B the Bass Muff against the Wren and Cuff 70's Tri Pie and the Tri Pie won but not by much, it was on the magnitude of details that could not be heard in a live setting. I have a Musket as well which I am just starting to explore.

For great fuzz I would recommend you look at the Barber Trifecta: it does a good Muff and a superb Colorsound Tonebender (two versions in fact). That pedal is underlooked but it's a gem. The other one is the Fuzzrocious Grey Stache. Very nice pedal.

Flatbass · #17 02-08-2012, 01:57 PM

Hi all, I'm bumping this thread because I'd like some more information on these exact muffs.

I'm looking for a thick, smooth, creamy fuzz with not a lot of high frequencies. I really like the sound in the beginning (1:30) of this clip, where the tone control is set at noon or turned counter clockwise from there: Bassfuzz.com Presents: EHX Russian Muff - YouTube
This is a Russian Muff.

The Bass Big Muff is a lot easier to find, but I don't like the way it sounds in this clip: EHX BASS BIG MUFF PI - GEAR UP - YouTube (0:59). It seems a lot harsher. There's also a lot of boomy low end, but that might be because of the recording.

Because of this, I'm leaning towards the Russian muff. Despite it's availability, input/output placement and the lack of a DC input.

Which one would be the best for the sound I described?

Thanks.

tonym · #18 02-08-2012, 02:09 PM

Take a look at the Stomp Under Foot pedals (HOME). I spent a long time trying out muffs and muff clones looking for exactly the one that is right for me. Matt at SUF is a muff enthusiast and has carefully traced out the different versions of the muffs and makes clones (and sometimes "idealized" versions). A lot of his clientele are Gilmour fanatics trying to cop the exact sound of Gilmour on from various periods (with different muffs). He has quite a few to choose from, and there are very detailed reviews of many of his pedals (as well as original muffs and other clones) with sound samples at gilmourish.com.

Again, can't recommend Matt enough. Very knowledgeable, prices are excellent for boutique pedals, and they're very very well put together.

Me, I got the Civil War and it's BEAUTIFUL!

omie · #19 02-08-2012, 02:52 PM

I think the TB consensus is, Russian muffs are awesome -but can get lost in the mix, bass muffs are meh - but are good enough for the money AND save your pennies and buy one of the sweet boutique clones out there - fuzzrocious, wren and cuff or stomp under foot come to mind.

DeltaPhoenix · #20 02-08-2012, 03:44 PM

TB consensus...what is that, does it exist, do I want to listen to that?