the blurred lines between distortion and OD

[Jerry J]

There seems, from my limited perspective, between distortion and overdrive. It's pretty easy to decipher the difference between overdrive and fuzz. But distortion seems to sound about the same as overdrive in the clips I've been checking out.

Is there a pedal that is distinctly distortion and not OD/fuzz? Or is the difference too subtle to be distinct?

[Jared Lash]

With apologies to Herman Melville

"Who in the rainbow can draw the line where the red tint ends and the orange tint begins? Distinctly we see the difference of the colors, but where exactly does the one first blendingly enter into the other? So with sanity and insanity."

Or with overdrive and distortion for that matter.

It's all a continuous range. I'd call the XXLB very clearly a "distortion" but in general you're right, it's very hard to tell the difference, especially since the classifications are fairly arbitrary to begin with. And of course it doesn't help when manufacturers seemingly mislabel pedals themselves such as calling the MXR Blowtorch an "overdrive".

[grygrx]

Covered in the FAQ's at the top of the page.

Overdrive, distortion and fuzz are often used interchangeably, but in a nutshell can be used to describe three degrees of the same effect: overdrive being a slightly grittier tone often heard in tube amps, distortion being a much dirtier tone while still retaining note definition, and fuzz tends to be a much more extreme distortion where note definition begins to be lost.

On a technical basis: overdrive refers to soft clipping, whereas the extremes of a sine wave are compressed a bit, distortion compresses them significantly more, and fuzz cuts off the tips. In the diagram below, overdrive and distortion are more characterized by the yellow, the red shows fuzz and the blue denotes the original signal.

[electracoyote]

That's good stuff grygrx.

In a more semantic sense, I have always thought of "overdrive" as the result of pushing or "overdriving" the tubes to create distortion. A good overdrive pedal or gain function can produce this distortion reaction from the tubes. However, when I think of "distortion" I don't always think of "tube distortion," because there are so many types of analog and digital distortion produced with chips and circuits that have nothing to do with tubes. When I think of fuzz, I think of a highly exaggerated or intensified distortion that actually goes beyond distortion into this creamy-compressed-sustained-bowed effect.

As I said, not too technical, more semantic and from the gut.

Short answer: Yes, there are digital and analog pedals whose primary purpose is to produce distortion, not "fuzz" and they are not intended to "overdrive" your gain or output stage if your amp. The Boss DS series comes immediately to mind.

[Pilgrim]

Beautiful, grygrx.

I'm happy with my Humphreys-mod Bad Monkey OD.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

In a more semantic sense, I have always thought of "overdrive" as the result of pushing or "overdriving" the tubes to create distortion. A good overdrive pedal or gain function can produce this distortion reaction from the tubes. However, when I think of "distortion" I don't always think of "tube distortion," because there are so many types of analog and digital distortion produced with chips and circuits that have nothing to do with tubes. When I think of fuzz, I think of a highly exaggerated or intensified distortion that actually goes beyond distortion into this creamy-compressed-sustained-bowed effect.

As I said, not too technical, more semantic and from the gut.

Well it IS the origin of the term "overdrive". Not merely semantics. But since only a minority of bass players know what overdriven tubes sound like firsthand, it's become a less useful reference point over the years

[Jerry J]

So I'm not going crazy trying to actually hear the differences.

I did check out the Wiki before posting but thanks for putting it in one place for this thread Grygrx. I have a degree in electronics and have played with oscilloscopes in the past. But like the difference between engineering calculations and real world tone is the unknown line.

I recently picked up two Bad Monkeys. One was built in China which I modded to the Humphrey specs. And the other is an early MIA which I found sounded significantly better to me that the Chinese version both unmodded and modded.

So I have a decent example of overdrive and I have three fuzz pedals that are a decent representation of fuzz (Super Collider, Si-B*assmaster, Flying Tomato).

So the XXL would be the next step in the process of distortion-OD-fuzz? (Jared has unknowingly become my effects mentor)

[RCCollins]

the XXL is a great example of distortion for bass. But I'd say the procession goes OD->distortion->fuzz

[dannybuoy]

I'd say the XXL can cover the lot. With the gain at minimum it can pass for an overdrive, and with the gain and warp cranked it's very fuzzy, with everything inbetween in the realm of distortion.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

I'd say the XXL can cover the lot. With the gain at minimum it can pass for an overdrive, and with the gain and warp cranked it's very fuzzy, with everything inbetween in the realm of distortion.

too bad the range at the low end of the drive knob is so sensitive. At min, it is still a CRANKED OD... I tend to think many folks think of "distortion" when they say "overdrive" - when you have more gain available than a tubescreamer (or maybe just as much, if the clipping is asymmetrical) then you can get into the distortion realm, even if the pedal says OD...

[grygrx]

My feeling is... if a non-bass player can tell that it's distorted, it no longer qualifies as an overdrive.

[Jerry J]

Originally Posted by grygrx

My feeling is... if a non-bass player can tell that it's distorted, it no longer qualifies as an overdrive.

So grygrx, overdrive is the least obvious?

BTW where does the Bass XXL fit in comparison to the Bad Monkey? I've found on the BM that at it's highest gain setting that it is very close to the lowest gain setting on my Flying Tomato if that makes any sense.

[RCCollins]

what gryg said makes a good rule of thumb. OD is the "mildest" for sure

Bad Monkey is a tubescreamer clone, which makes it an OD. Flying Tomato is a fuzz and as such, it will pretty much always lose more note definition than the Monkey. The zone inbetween, where the two overlap, could be thought of as distortion

[Jared Lash]

Yeah, the three are generally arranged in terms of the amount of clipping which, from least to most, goes Overdrive/Distortion/Fuzz.

This also is the order of decreasing note definition. Every once and a while there will be a thread asking which fuzzes have the most definition when the reality is that it's the nature of the effect to degrade the clarity of your signal.

Something like the Cream Pie would be on one end of the spectrum as a very mild overdrive with an extreme fuzz like the Woooly Mammoth or Great Destroyer on the other end of the spectrum.

And of course, countless pedal manufacturers will claim to have a pedal that "goes from mild, tube like overdrive to all-out fuzz madness!" a claim that I have yet to see any single pedal live up to. So people will argue that the XXLB is a heavy overdrive, or that it can do overdrive with the gain down and a light touch. And they aren't wrong, since these are fairly arbitrary divisions.

But under my own personal definitions, I'd call the XXLB a distortion that responds well to dynamics.

[grygrx]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Yeah, the three are generally arranged in terms of the amount of clipping which, from least to most, goes Overdrive/Distortion/Fuzz.

This also is the order of decreasing note definition. Every once and a while there will be a thread asking which fuzzes have the most definition when the reality is that it's the nature of the effect to degrade the clarity of your signal.

Something like the Cream Pie would be on one end of the spectrum as a very mild overdrive with an extreme fuzz like the Woooly Mammoth or Great Destroyer on the other end of the spectrum.

And of course, countless pedal manufacturers will claim to have a pedal that "goes from mild, tube like overdrive to all-out fuzz madness!" a claim that I have yet to see any single pedal live up to. So people will argue that the XXLB is a heavy overdrive, or that it can do overdrive with the gain down and a light touch. And they aren't wrong, since these are fairly arbitrary divisions.

But under my own personal definitions, I'd call the XXLB a distortion that responds well to dynamics.

+1

[loendmaestro]

an excellent thread so far...thanks gentlemen.

[bigchiefbc]

A few examples of pedals that I think are unquestionably distortion - Proco Rat and Turbo Rat (previously owned both), Tech 21 XXLB and Sansamp GT2, Marshall Guv'Nor (previously owned), Boss Metal Zone, The Syle Umiom (currently own)

[theunknowndude]

an easy way for myself to see the differences is using my PD7 in OD mode (sounds synthetic but very overdrive, clear note definition), the distortion mode (sounds smilar to the overdrive mode but 'hair around the edges' on most setting's still some not definition) and then I have the TZ-2 fuzz and the Cherry pop Fuzz,... the TZ-2 can actually kind of have note definition, but it it is soooo compressed that its another wave and not the same tone as the clean note... plus I like the added hint of upper octave you can get but thats another story,...

the cherry pop is another level,... its compressed but not as far as the TZ-2 in terms of another wave,... but the hair around the edges is more like a forest,... this is the pedal I choose for when I want to just drown everything and let them know there is a low end and it shall ROAR!

edit: I think of overdrives as 'bringing out the notes more' in terms of note definition and sustain where as distortion and fuzz are definitely ones that change the tone

[Jerry J]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

A few examples of pedals that I think are unquestionably distortion - Proco Rat and Turbo Rat (previously owned both), Tech 21 XXLB and Sansamp GT2, Marshall Guv'Nor (previously owned), Boss Metal Zone, The Syle Umiom (currently own)

This list outlines a list of pedals to try out just so I can get a better idea where distortion fits into the scheme of things. And first on the list is the xxl b.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

A few examples of pedals that I think are unquestionably distortion - Proco Rat and Turbo Rat (previously owned both), Tech 21 XXLB and Sansamp GT2, Marshall Guv'Nor (previously owned), Boss Metal Zone, The Syle Umiom (currently own)

I haven't tried the Metal Zone or the Umiom, but considering I think the others in your list are spot on, I'm guessing they fit well into the "distortion" category too, at least by my definition of it.

One interesting thing about distortion on bass is that I find it tends to be the dirt category that most often causes low end loss. More than fuzz generally, and certainly more than overdrive. In fact, the Rat and GT2 are often held up as being examples of the worst offenders in terms of low end loss.

But they also both sound fantastic IMO.