BOSS CS-3 modding

NickInMesa · #1 03-13-2010, 06:48 PM

I just got a BOSS CS-3 for $30 at the pawn (also got an ODB-3 with box for the same price).

I played it a bit and it is already doing a decent job.

I opened it to see if it was modded.

I looked and compared with these instructions:

http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cs3modding.shtml

I can see that all the Caps are still electrolytic. But C2 is now a .022 non polarized and R32 and D10 are wire jumped. That cap has also glue on it isolate it from the nearby capacitors, not a BOSS factory job.

I would suspect that it was modded but a different mod than the one in the page linked to.

Has anybody modded a CS-3, is it a good idea for bass and if yes which mod do you recommend?

Thanks!

NickInMesa · #2 03-14-2010, 11:55 PM

Just a bump.

Bish42 · #3 03-15-2010, 07:09 AM

I've got the Monte Allums mod, but I don't like the tone and it's noisy.

I don't generally like compression though.

NickInMesa · #4 03-20-2010, 09:57 PM

This is what a modded CS-3 looks like with Ovni's mod.

I used some big caps, I know. Closing the box was a bit of an issue, I had to move some of these guys around a bit.

The heat shrink tubing was not shrunk at that point, this was after the initial test, which was conclusive.

NickInMesa · #5 03-21-2010, 11:32 AM

I have to report that the fix is pretty awesome.

This is now a great addition.

Pedal cost me $30 at the pawn and about $15 in parts.

SpankyPants · #6 01-10-2012, 08:54 PM

I found a mod that uses MUCH larger uf values in the caps. I made a graph with the original values of the CS-3, the proposed mods by bongo, a proposed "fat guitar tone" mod, and the bass mod that has significantly larger caps.

I plan on testing out the Bass mod, but I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the bazillion million caps available. In the mod plans, only a few were specified as Metal Film or Silver Mica. Now I'm looking at websites, and it seems that capacitors have many more parameters that weren't mentioned. I have no idea what kind of cap would be useful... Would any of these make any particular cap better or worse for this purpose? Voltage Rating AC/DC, Dielectric material, Tolerance, Equivalent Series Resistance, etc. etc.

Is any of that relevant for this type of endeavor?

What if I used film caps for pretty much all of these? Or would there be a better type?

My computer is on its last leg, so many of these parts websites won't even load... I'm kinda shooting in the dark here.

bongomania · #7 01-10-2012, 09:29 PM

Film caps are fine for most of the locations, and you really don't need to go crazy with all the varieties. Low voltage is all you need, and polyester/polypropylene is a good standard of quality, and they are the same as "metal film". Silver mica is one of those voodoo things you don't need to spend money on.

I'm guessing the main reason the high-values bass mod has such huge cap values is because somebody read somewhere that bass signals "always" need higher cap values--so they went through and did that with every cap. But really it's only the input filter, and sometimes the output one, that usually need such big values; and even then there's a point of diminishing returns--going from .022 uF to .22 uF typically makes a huge improvement at the input filter, but going from .22 uf to 1.0 uF may not make any difference at all.

But I could be wrong, it may be that the bass mod values were picked based on experimentation, and not just "quest for big values".

One thing you can do is install little pin sockets for the cap legs, so you can swap in however many different values without resoldering each time.

FWIW, I did exactly that, and I was unable to honestly tell whether the differences I heard were real or imaginary.

SpankyPants · #8 01-10-2012, 10:43 PM

The two columns on the right were taken out of a Wampler effect modification book if that counts for anything.

If going from .22uf to 1uf wouldn't have any potential *negative* effects, I might as well just shoot for the 1uf for now. I'll give it a shot just to see how it works if anything. Would there be a physical size difference between the two caps?

And how do I tell if a cap is nonpolar?

SpankyPants · #9 01-10-2012, 10:57 PM

So essentially for capacitors, I could pick any capacitor out of here with the required capacitance, and it would work?

Minus the silver mica one... which is irrelevant now.

Also, does the different Resistor value in the "bass" mod make any difference?

audiomitch · #10 01-11-2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bish42

I've got the Monte Allums mod, but I don't like the tone and it's noisy.

I don't generally like compression though.

I did the same mod. It's OK for guitar, but haven't cared for it on bass so far. To be fair, I haven't spent a lot of time dialing it in. It may be fun if I ever want to crush the signal flat

I normally use a BBE Opto Stomp, which is about the polar opposite of the modded CS-3.

bongomania · #11 01-11-2012, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyPants

If going from .22uf to 1uf wouldn't have any potential *negative* effects, I might as well just shoot for the 1uf for now. I'll give it a shot just to see how it works if anything. Would there be a physical size difference between the two caps?

Yes, that's the thing, a 1 uF polyester cap can be the size of a Halloween mini candy bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyPants

And how do I tell if a cap is nonpolar?

All of those metal-film, polyester etc. caps are nonpolar. The polar ones are electrolytic, so just avoid electrolytics and you're good. You can tell by looking, too, because the polar ones are typically a cannister shape with a stripe on the body that lines up with one of the legs. Actually electrolytics are fine to use, but the general belief people (including me I guess) operate on is that they don't sound as good when directly in the audio path.

bongomania · #12 01-11-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyPants

So essentially for capacitors, I could pick any capacitor out of here with the required capacitance, and it would work?

Yes, just narrow the search first by "in stock", then by "through hole" mounting, then by "radial leads" (for convenience), then by the capacitance. If you still have options, then narrow it down to a closer tolerance (e.g. 5% is better than 20%).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpankyPants

Also, does the different Resistor value in the "bass" mod make any difference?

Don't know, good question.

SpankyPants · #13 01-11-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Don't know, good question.

Scrubs - 7x03 : Carla doesn't love Turk like JD does - YouTube

SpankyPants · #14 01-11-2012, 01:19 PM

Cool, thanks. I had tried narrowing it down with the "in stock", mounting, and capacitance columns. Now I can use the others, and I'll pay attention to the physical sizes of the components. I appreciate it Cyrus.

metaball · #15 01-11-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bish42

I've got the Monte Allums mod, but I don't like the tone and it's noisy.
I don't generally like compression though.

i've got a MA modded CS-3 & while it's a drastic improvement over the stock sound (no more hiss or hum) I still don't find much use for it. i'm also not much of a compressor user when it comes to live signal chains. i tend to use compression more while mixing.

i've seen some other mods where people threw "big caps" in & the result tends to be fatter bass.

SpankyPants · #16 01-11-2012, 03:49 PM

Got the smallest physical caps I could find. I'll let you know how it goes.

moles · #17 01-11-2012, 07:16 PM

How many of you guys are just using it stock?

I was always under the impression that it really cut lows, but after I saw one (a CS-2) on Juan Alderete's board, and playing around with the Line 6 model of it I went and picked up a new one yesterday. So far it seems like it's got plenty of low end, and it's pretty quiet too, after a low volume livingroom run through anyway.

We'll see how it holds up this weekend...

kreider204 · #18 01-11-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moles

How many of you guys are just using it stock?

I was always under the impression that it really cut lows, but after I saw one (a CS-2) on Juan Alderete's board, and playing around with the Line 6 model of it I went and picked up a new one yesterday. So far it seems like it's got plenty of low end, and it's pretty quiet too, after a low volume livingroom run through anyway.

We'll see how it holds up this weekend...

It's been a while since I used one, but I never got the impression that it had any problem with low end at all. In fact, it was quite the opposite - I felt it squished the high end a bit. I found a setting I liked quite a bit for slap, though - IIRC, the sustain and attack were both at about 9 o'clock, and the tone at about 3 o'clock (to bring back some of the treble, and add a little more).

WhoSeyes · #19 01-12-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moles

How many of you guys are just using it stock?

I was always under the impression that it really cut lows, but after I saw one (a CS-2) on Juan Alderete's board, and playing around with the Line 6 model of it I went and picked up a new one yesterday. So far it seems like it's got plenty of low end, and it's pretty quiet too, after a low volume livingroom run through anyway.

We'll see how it holds up this weekend...

I use it 100% stock and I am happy with it. I use it mainly to even my sound, not for slap or agressive playing.

LEVEL 1:30
TONE 12:00
ATTACK 1:30-to max
RELEASE 1:30

The bass mod intrigues me, thought, so I cannot assure you that it will remain unmodded forever...

EDIT: by the way, how do you know that Juan Alderete uses a "stock" CS-2?

metaball · #20 01-12-2012, 05:00 PM

i hear wildly different opinions on the stock pedal. i wonder how many subtle to not so subtle changes in components & build quality have happened in the couple of decades it's been in production. the stock pedal i had was completely unusable due to hiss & hum, which is why i went for the MA mod. i believe the pedal was from the mid to late 90's.