Boss Pedal Tuner - Change in sound?

Goose72 · #1 12-26-2008, 01:49 PM

Hello fellow TBers!

I got a Boss TU-2 Chromatic pedal tuner for Christmas, and have been playing around with it. I run a livewire instrument cable from my GK BL600/Avatar 210 to the pedal, then my Monster instrument cable to my Fender MIM Jazz. When I use this setup, my sound changes. It seems to lose a little beef and good sweet Jazz tone in general, that running my bass to the amp using the Monster cable has. Is this normal? Even if I run the pedal through the "Tuner" out, it still changes the ever so slightly and I DO NOT like it.

Anyone know why this is, or is it always going to happen?

Thanks,

Josh

KJung · #2 12-26-2008, 01:57 PM

I hear the same thing, even through high end tuners that claim 'true bypass'.

Whenever you add something between your bass and your amp (even if it's just the 10db pad or using an 'active input'), you are going to experience, at best, a subtle but still noticable tone change.

IMO, it's better to just unplug your bass from the amp and plug into the tuner when you need to tune, or else use a tuner amp or line out from your amp to send a signal to your tuner without having it 'in-line'.

IMO and IME.

Nyarlathotep · #3 12-26-2008, 02:43 PM

Funny, I notice no change at all. I didn't with my old TU-2, and I don't with my new one.

atoni · #4 12-26-2008, 02:48 PM

I ditched my TU-2 and grabbed Korg Pitchblack. No tone sucking and more precise tuning. Check it out.

Here's also some interesting to read...

http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/tuners.htm
and
http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/...es/tuners2.htm

slyjoe · #5 12-26-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

I hear the same thing, even through high end tuners that claim 'true bypass'.

Whenever you add something between your bass and your amp (even if it's just the 10db pad or using an 'active input'), you are going to experience, at best, a subtle but still noticable tone change.

Some people can hear a change, some can't, especially in a live setting.

Quote:

IMO, it's better to just unplug your bass from the amp and plug into the tuner when you need to tune, or else use a tuner amp or line out from your amp to send a signal to your tuner without having it 'in-line'.

IMO and IME.

Isn't that what the OP is doing and still claims it alters the sound??? I have never heard of a tuner out affecting the sound when a tuner is actually (gasp) connected.

Boneless · #6 12-26-2008, 02:54 PM

The thing is, simply: when you use a pedal between your bass and your amp, you will, most probably, drive the bass's signal though more cable to get to the amp (unless you switch from a 3m cable to two 1.5m cables, which means playing practically glued to the amp

), so even with a true bypass pedal, you will experience some tone loss (especially the treble and high mids).

A solution to this is using a high-quality buffer before the tuner, so to "beef up" the signal and let it reach the amp's input having experienced less, or very little tone loss (according to the quality of the buffer and to the length of the cables) due to the physical characteristics of the cable.

I remember once trying out an Ernie Ball volume pedal, the shop assistant gave me two 5m cables, one to get to the pedal, and one from the pedal to the amp. It sounded sh*t, no treble at all, and I thought "this pedal is crap". Then I tried out a cheaper volume pedal as well (thinking that the Ernie Ball one may have been "broken" - although I'd really would like to know what CAN break in a volume pedal

), with the same results. Then, out of curiosity, I tried connecting directly to the amp, and, ta-dah! the treble was back. I then bought the ten-times-cheaper volume pedal since the tone loss in both pedals was exactly the same, and honestly, paying good money just to get a metal pedal, with a supposedly better "feel" (but I only use volume pedals to level the output in the quiet parts, especially when using very compressed overdrives and distortions, so...), was out of the question

GearHeadBassMan · #7 12-26-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoni

I ditched my TU-2 and grabbed Korg Pitchblack. No tone sucking and more precise tuning. Check it out.

Here's also some interesting to read...

http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/tuners.htm
and
http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/...es/tuners2.htm

im looking at a pitchblack cause its black, $10 cheaper, and has a bigger display. I though the Tu-2 was true bypass as well?

cooler looks ftw.

thejohnkim · #8 12-26-2008, 03:02 PM

i guess it depends on how the amp is sending out the tuner out signal. but it sounds like your bl600's tuner out is not too different from a simple split. you can try a true bypass pedal tuner like the Korg Pitchblack, or you can perhaps switch it in and out via a serial effects loop if your amp has that capability

slyjoe · #9 12-26-2008, 03:08 PM

I seriously doubt you can tell the difference in tone between a 1.5 m cable and a 3.0 m cable. In these cases there is usually a bit of psychology going on.

The TU-2 and all Boss pedals use a FET buffer switch.

The BL600 tuner output is after the input buffering, so it doesn't appear to be a "Y" connection from the input.

To the OP - do you have a fresh battery for the TU-2? With FET buffering, a low battery can cause all kinds of issues, even when the tuner is in bypass.

Goose72 · #10 12-26-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe

I seriously doubt you can tell the difference in tone between a 1.5 m cable and a 3.0 m cable. In these cases there is usually a bit of psychology going on.

The TU-2 and all Boss pedals use a FET buffer switch.

The BL600 tuner output is after the input buffering, so it doesn't appear to be a "Y" connection from the input.

To the OP - do you have a fresh battery for the TU-2? With FET buffering, a low battery can cause all kinds of issues, even when the tuner is in bypass.

I may need to change the battery...I just got the pedal for Christmas, but I was looking through the manual and saw that it says the battery is very low quality because they are included "mainly for testing" or something along those lines. A friend uses this tuner with his guitar and I never thought it made a difference in the sound, but I have never heard him go directly from the guitar to the amp, just guitar-tuner-amp. I will replace the battery with a good old energizer!

Boneless · #11 12-26-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe

I seriously doubt you can tell the difference in tone between a 1.5 m cable and a 3.0 m cable. In these cases there is usually a bit of psychology going on.

No, you can't tell the difference, really.
But between 5m and 10m (and maybe between 3m and 6m), there REALLY is a difference, I only put 1.5 and 3m as examples, actually

Of course, this only applies IF you're using decent, normal-priced cables (not any of that "hi-end" stuff, just as long you don't use those wimpy thin cables you get with your average cheap starter kit).

slyjoe · #12 12-26-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose72

...

I will replace the battery with a good old energizer!

Try a good NEW energizer

and let us know if that helps.

joemer · #13 12-26-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose72

I may need to change the battery...I just got the pedal for Christmas, but I was looking through the manual and saw that it says the battery is very low quality because they are included "mainly for testing" or something along those lines. A friend uses this tuner with his guitar and I never thought it made a difference in the sound, but I have never heard him go directly from the guitar to the amp, just guitar-tuner-amp. I will replace the battery with a good old energizer!

I just purchased the Pitchblack today and I am using a One Spot with all my pedals and I haven't noticed any change in the tone I am running:
Pitchblack>Boss CEB-3 Chorus>VT bass>Boss LMB-3 compression>LM2.

megadan · #14 12-26-2008, 07:52 PM

I've never really noticed it that much with the TU-2, but this is why bass amps have tuner outputs I guess.

My solution is easier: use a TU-2 ALL THE TIME, and you can easily tweak your EQ to compensate. You'll never know the difference. And, you'll always been in tune.

Goose72 · #15 12-26-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Try a good NEW energizer

and let us know if that helps.

errr.....thats what I meant

The battery seems to have helped a little, and I will try fixing up my EQ to adjust it!

Thanks for all the help!

mikkejohansson · #16 12-26-2008, 11:50 PM

I used to use a simple a/b-switch (dod 270) with my TU2 for that exact reason. Then i got smart and ordered a PitchBlack - a/b-switch be gone!

BobOnBass · #17 12-27-2008, 06:26 AM

The guitar-player in my band just switched from Boss tu-2 to Korg pitch-black, because of the layout on his board. Before, he was aware of the rumors about tone-sucking but just didn't bother because he still had great tone all-in-all. Apart from that he is just a plug-and-play guy and doesn't really get the hi-fi searching for ultimate tone kinda thing. I asked him last gig if it made a difference and he was surprised to notice it did and a lot to!

That said, you already have it so why not use a cheap a/b switch for it? Apart from the tone they are great tuners.

Bob.

deadstar · #18 12-27-2008, 08:53 AM

I think I'm going to have to get a pitch black... The guitarist in my band keeps laughing at me haha! So yes, I think it looks better anyway... like KITT from Knight Rider!

Thunderscreech · #19 12-27-2008, 09:30 AM

You only think you hear a difference.

Jostein · #20 12-27-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose72

... Even if I run the pedal through the "Tuner" out, it still changes the ever so slightly ...

How is this possible? Do you connect from "tuner out" to the tuner and then back to the amp again in any way?

Or does the pedal actually change the sound when it's on a side chain too?