Case against Blend control - PDF content

[musicelectronix]

Ok, I am planning to write about stuff regularly what I consider as marketting hypes. Here is the first one:

Case Against Blend

Please keep in mind that, I am strictly talking about bass overdrive/fuzz pedals.

[KarateKid25]

Interesting read, thanks.

While I havn't owned one yet, and im not claiming to say I already knew that, but I have wondered why you would bother with a blend on an already 'bass' type distortion pedal.

Blend to me, is for very much guitar based effects that leave your sound thin and bass-less

Im interested to hear what the guys with a blend on a bass dist box have to say about their experiences and uses for it

[musicelectronix]

I forgot the write something and updated the PDF. FYI..

[KarateKid25]

Thanks. I re-read it. I think the missing bit was about trying to use the dry only and then the blend ?

[musicelectronix]

Originally Posted by KarateKid25

Thanks. I re-read it. I think the missing bit was about trying to use the dry only and then the blend ?

That and certain type of fuzz core designs those effected by low impedance input (just like active bass to fuzz type of complication).

[Nyarlathotep]

I dont plan on reading it, but I'd like to point out that both the blend on my goat, and the blend on the SAPDDI and Sparkle Drive I once owned, are all very good, and sound(ed) to me like a blended twin signal should.

Not to be offencive or anything, but im just wondering if there's maybe more than 1 "type" of blend circut out there?

[KarateKid25]

Maybe your questions will be revealed if you read it Mr Tulip

Its only just on 3 pages and its all spaced out. Its not a big tech read or anything.

[Nyarlathotep]

^ hehehe, maybe tomorrow then

[bongomania]

Hmm... Os, is this opinion based on theory or experience? I ask because this line:

It may be fine with the bedroom levels, but at a gig, all the audiences hear will be a chaotic low end soup. It will reduce the clarity and makes your bass unrecognizable which have you just changed the strings, upgraded the pickups, bridge and the harness. On that note, why don’t you and your band mix your signals and plug it to your Ampeg?

Has me dubious. For the first part, how is it different from using multiple speaker cabs, or even the array of onstage amp/monitors/PA cabs, all multiplying your bass signal with different phase alignment? How is it so different from using a resonant filter? For the last part about running the whole band through the bass amp, that's a "slippery slope" argument, which is a fallacy.

In essence, I agree with you that people need to use their ears and their best judgment rather than just believing hype. But I don't necessarily agree with your argument supporting that opinion.

[seanm]

I think you missed a couple of very practical uses for the blend.

1) You get a more versatile pedal. Many OD pedals with gain, the sparkle drive, the ubiquitous odb-3, etc. can be used a clean gain pedals with the dry only signal.

2) Another use for the blend is to tone down down an effect. I used the blend on the BDDI almost exclusively to tone down the effect, not to "get back the low end".

And a couple of cons for balance

1) You can have phase problems. This is, hopefully, more a problem with external blend pedals than built in blends.

2) Some blends give you a layered effect. You hear the wet signal as separate from the dry signal. Some may like this, but I generally find it bothers me for some reasons. This may be a phase problem, I am not sure.

[nad]

I understand the need to blend, especially if you want to keep all your low end, because even the dirt boxes best at retaining the low end still lose a bit of the girth, what with the natural compression characteristics that overdrive/distortion/fuzz brings. I have no scientific basis for this opinion, simply what my ears subjectively tell me.

The only blend I use is on my B:Assmaster, which given the character of that particular fuzz, is absolutely necessary. All others I have never felt the need, but I almost always go for bass-specific or at the very least bass-friendly dirt boxes. Then again, the only adjustment I ever make to the bass knob on my amp is to cut it a few dB, so what do I know about the big bottom anyhow?

[KarateKid25]

Originally Posted by seanm

2) Another use for the blend is to tone down down an effect. I used the blend on the BDDI almost exclusively to tone down the effect, not to "get back the low end".

Thats a good one. While I said that I have never had a Dist/fuzz pedal with a blend, I have used an external blend to achieve that (after Bongo gave me some helpful ideas to calm down an FX25). I didn't think of that in my original post.

Also, on another note, I had to do Latin all through primary and the start of secondary school... Your little note under your user name is clever

[nad]

Originally Posted by seanm

2) Another use for the blend is to tone down down an effect.

No wonder I've never used a blender.

[Taylor Livingston]

I have to disagree. I think you raise valid points, but I think blend controls can be very useful, beyond retaining low end. Many gain effects alter the dynamics and frequency response in ways other than low frequencies. A blend can be great for getting back some pick attack and clarity when using a very thick fuzz, for example.

Like everything else, really, it's a useful tool that can be misused.

[seanm]

Originally Posted by nad

No wonder I've never used a blender.

I hear yeah These days, when I break out the Torn's Peaker I want all the extreme tone I can get.

But for the BDDI, I find it a bit too compressed, I need a bit of "air". So I blend back in some of the clean tone.

[musicelectronix]

I don't want to quote all of you guys, but rather try to address the issues here. I am glad that you guys are mentioning things that you find unreasonable, but also hope you can also mention valid points A TB collective corrections would make all the things better.

I have been designing a bass overdrive and desperately trying to put a blending option. I never satisfied with the results. Then I scratched everyhing and completely went another route, just to have a blend control. The second design also sounded good by itself, but blending didn't really integrate into the sound. Then I noticed, if I do not design it to have extensive bottom, blending seemed to work fine as the overlaps do not occur as extensively and the output signal was less jumbled. In the ligth of this discovery, I put a freq. selector option as in "distort over 120khz" and "distort over 850khz" (much like a guitar overdrive). Then it hit me, I was giving the option of having a guitar overdrive with blender.

About Bongo's comments: I would say more of a technical viewpoint than experience, but also can not deny the "power of suggestion". I noticed that I should have been more specific on some issues. The second flow chart is more or less a perfect blending circuit, if you include the phase correction on the buffer at the FX return. On a transistor based designed, the total transistors addition to what we already have is at least 5 and total component count is more than a 100. On an opamp based designed (if you use dual opamps), this number is 3 more opamps and around maybe 30 additional components. This means about 3 times bigger board and more extensive design engineering to prevent feedbacks, noise, fit in the box, etc; not to mention additional cost. I have never seen a design like this on the pedals that I checked out, most of them have rather primitive blend sections leading mixing to be less than appropriate.

Design of PAs or similiar HI-FI amplification units differ greatly than instrument amps. Using two different cabs per say is nothing more than feeding two different signals coming from one source. What have been argued here is feeding two source of signal, while one of them is relatively close to sinus and the other is cut, squared, trimmed, etc without first producing an uniform wave signal. These two seperate signals blend in together with and it is not different than feeding an amp with two seperate signals. That was my point. If we can get away with just a potentiometer, we wouldn't use mixing consoles. All of the things you mentioned are modifications of one signal source.

To seanm: I certainly agree with most of your post and what I meant when I write "dubbing your bass" was pretty much what you wrote "layered effect". I am guessing preamps like BDDI would not be using a blending arrangement as we know it, but I didn't really use one so I can not be sure. It is not an overdrive/fuzz pedal, it is a preamp and like all preamps when the gain increases, it pushes the preceeding stages to overdrive, which is somewhat different than what I argued. I am sure the direct signal is buffered and mixed like a console, rather than just being blended.

I also agree with nad, *some* low end will be lost due to natural compression, but only in linear designed effects. I mean, no clipping diodes. Even if it is linear like a preamp, there are still ways to cope with this issue and that was also what I was trying to say when I mention "converted guitar overdrives".

To sum up, I can understand the versatility viewpoint, maybe. But the main thing I oppose is "seeing the blend control as an absolute must for a bass overdrive/fuzz". I will also post a second PDF, compiled from what I have read here as a counter-argument to the case against blending.

[scotch]

I think Musicelectronix has some great points in his argument. However - just because the op has had limited success designing a suitable blend doesn't mean that other builders have not succeeded. SansAmps are perfect examples. Even my Boss ODB-3 has a functional blend (even if it has been mislabeled as an overdrive...). Also my experience auditioning an Xotic X-Blender was very positive. That thing is the swiss army knife of blendability!!!

That said, I checked out the op's website & was very impressed with both the clips & the graphic settings interface! I wish more pedal manufacturers would follow your lead. I think a Messdrive Hybrid+ is in my near future - Even without a blend knob!

[dannster]

To me a mix of original and effected signal always sounds better.

You may want to blame the likes of Tom Petersson, Monty Colvin and Dug Pinnick who had sometimes several rigs including bass and guitar amp setups to blend sounds.

Some sort of pedal with blend affords someone without the means or back muscles to replicate this sound without lugging a ton of gear.

My recent purchase of a T-Rex Bass Juice is in excellent version of a distortion/fuzz pedal that has boost and a mix knob.

[musicelectronix]

As far as I know Tom Petersson do not use pedals Also Dug Pinnick use a little mixer to blend two amps into a power amp, hence the uniform wave arguement.

But still, I can understand the versatility it can add especially to a chorus, phaser, delay, etc. But, without a decent application, it really is a pain rather than a convenience. Maybe I use too small boxes for my pedals, I couldn't put everything inside Even if I did, I would have charged considerable higher for a pedal based on labor/time ratio. But I did manage to design a decent overdrive WITH the damn blend, just altered the main circuit to allow less bass in it and shifted the harmonic reproductions to a higher frequency; (trust me on this comment) like everybody else does either knowingy or not.

As I said, I will be more specific on some issues and add counter-arguements to the PDF file This was the main reason I post it here, open to discussion.

[Jazz Ad]

I don't think I agree with a single point of your rant, even the premises are wrong.
The overdrive pedals that are considered the best for bass have no blend at all. Fulltone Bassdrive, RAT, Jacques Tube Blower, Tech21 XXL et all.
The case of the SansAmp is different. The tube circuit is meant to be mixed with clean signal at core. It's not really an verdrive pedal anyway.
Using several parallel lines of effects make for a thicker, richer tone. I play this way most of the time. It only becomes blurry if you don't know what you're doing.
Blends are just another option anyway, you don't need to use them if you don't feel the need.