Chorus disappears when they sing !

Bassman 100 · #1 09-05-2008, 08:21 AM

Using Boss ME50-B with 30 strong member Church Folk Group. One electric Piano, Two acoustic/electric guitars (not using FX) & the Bass.

Fender Bassman 100 & Epiphone Viola Bass. Slow song, would sound nice with chorus/reverb, combined. Configured at home, sounding subtle, rich & effective. On the night, live, it might as well not be there. The chorus patch is unnoticeable to the human ear. Any suggestions ?

Also have the GT6-B have not tried this at Church yet, but I mimicked the ME50-B chorus from the GT6-B initially.

Stingray_EB · #2 09-05-2008, 08:23 AM

Ive had this problem with thingslike chorus aswell. My only suggestion would be to turn up for that song. I think its a case of quiet room on your own vs a Church Folk Group.

VisualShock · #3 09-05-2008, 08:27 AM

yeah, what sounds great on your own will sound nothing like it in a band situation, especially such a sizable one! go crazy on it, try turning it up to near full next time, and then if it's too much take tiny increments out

Bassman 100 · #4 09-05-2008, 08:31 AM

Hi, thanks for the realtime replies. I presume you are talking about turning up the chorus level & not my master volume ?

bongomania · #5 09-05-2008, 09:31 AM

Try both.

What's happening with chorus is it takes a copy of your signal and detunes it in a cyclical pattern, and then layers that on top of the dry signal. This creates the "chorus" effect. It is dependent on the ear being able to hear the cyclical detuning. As soon as you introduce a ton more sustained tonal information, with each voice detuning slightly against each other, especially when you have like 30 additional detuning voices, there's no way a listener's brain can pick apart the incoming waves to hear the specific detuning of the bass signal against itself.

FreaqyFrequency · #6 09-05-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Try both.

What's happening with chorus is it takes a copy of your signal and detunes it in a cyclical pattern, and then layers that on top of the dry signal. This creates the "chorus" effect. It is dependent on the ear being able to hear the cyclical detuning. As soon as you introduce a ton more sustained tonal information, with each voice detuning slightly against each other, especially when you have like 30 additional detuning voices, there's no way a listener's brain can pick apart the incoming waves to hear the specific detuning of the bass signal against itself.

Great explanation.

JanusZarate · #7 09-05-2008, 10:08 AM

+1 to Bongo.

Also, you might want to try dropping the reverb effect in a live setting. Create a patch with just the chorus.

Room acoustics will contribute some natural reverb. Too much reverb - natural or not - will make your sound muddy, especially in lower-frequency territory. And given that you have to compete with a group that large, you don't need anything to fight your clarity!

bassman1185 · #8 09-05-2008, 11:02 AM

With the ME-50B, the Chorus is pre-set when you combine it with the reverb and delay. The preset chorus is fairly subtle, so maybe try it without the reverb and try a more extreme setting.

Bongo is right, though. With all the other harmonic information that your brain is processing, a mild chorus (something that doesn't just make you sound out of tune) will get pretty much lost in the mix.

Bassman 100 · #9 09-05-2008, 11:35 AM

Amazing explanations here, thanks. Now another question ! If the modulation is increased, is what is heard beside the amp and say 50 - 80 feet away, the same or different, in other words is modulation lost or maintained over distance ?

JanusZarate · #10 09-05-2008, 11:54 AM

Everything is lost over distance. It's not exactly tied to effects.

What is more audible over distance isn't tied to modulation, per se, but to the frequency content of the sound. Modulation will alter that frequency content in a variable way, but I wouldn't be too concerned about that. It affects audibility to a degree, but it's one you can work with. Rather, I'll direct you to your EQ...

As a bass player, mids are your friend. Low frequencies eat up a lot of power in order to be heard; to make them clear and audible over large distances requires even larger amounts of power. But mids and treble? They use less power and are more easily heard over large distances. It makes more sense to boost mids if you don't have much power or many speakers to work with.

So if you have trouble being heard 50-80 feet away, turn up your amp, but more importantly, adjust your EQ as you turn it up. Mids are the most important thing to adjust!

**bassman314** · #11 09-05-2008, 01:03 PM

In the Large church environ, are you sending to FOH?

With a small amp, you might want to consider sending a signal from an output on the amp (if possible) to the sound board (if one exists) and let the House PA be your amp. Use your combo as a stage monitor.

I do that at my church, and don't seem to have a problem not eharing my chorus.

Also, don't be afraid to change the parameters on the chorus. I'm not totally familar with the GT-6, but I assume that the chorus patch controls are similar to any multitude of the BOSS chorus pedals. I have the CEB-3. If you can, turn the depth (the amount of detune, per Sr. Boo's most eloquent description) up, but turn the rate (the amount of times the depth cycles) down. Also, adjust the wet vs. dry levels, so that you have just enough chorus peeking out. The CEB-3 has a Low EQ level that cuts some of the bass from the wet signal, which helps to keep the effect tame. If the GT-6 patch has that, play with it, as well.

IME, it gives me a thicker sounding chorus, but doesn't sound overly out of tune to itself, and doesn't warble like a bad contra-alto attempting to sing Wagner.