Chorus style delay pedal?

[manchild]

Im looking into getting non expensive simple to use delay pedal (pref hardwire) that i can use like a chorus effect.

In the sense that the repeats would be fast enough and close enough that it would become a blur and 'fatten' out my notes when engaged.

Im wondering if this is poss and what brands/models would cater for this as i dont like the sort of tinny/glassy sound that most chorus effects give to your tone and would prefer a fatter sound that is more natural and has no tonal effect to my dry signal.

I have been looking at the EHX Echo pedal but not heard it properly yet.

What do you guys think? First off, is what im looking for possible? And if so, what would you recomend in your experience?

Cheers

[gnasher1993]

Chorus is modulating pitch. Delay is repeats. As the repeats get closer it turns in to reverb. The technique you're describing will get a very mechanical reverb.

Can I ask why you don't just use a chorus pedal?

[atheos]

Not possible. The only application for such short delay is stereo delay which indeed "fattens" the tone - if it's stereo. The idea is to delay one of the two channels some milliseconds, usually approx. 10ms to 20ms. Bass in stereo... Naaah. In mono the effect doesn't blur the sound but only kills certain frequencies depending on the delay amount and at some point it starts to sound like a "slapback" delay.

The modulation effects duplicate the signal and modulate the duplicated signal and then blend it to the original. Chorus modulates pitch, flanger modulates time and phaser modulates phase. But chorus is chorus, no way to change that.

[manchild]

Yeah i see what you mean, but isn't chorus/modualtion closly related to delay/reverb in its application - except that as you have said, chorus puts the delayed signal slightly out of time with the dry signal and then blends to create that worble/tinny sound.

I dont like the tone of chorus or the worble effect when turned up high, but would like a sort of 'solid' reverb sound where the notes would be thickened (a bit like when you over dub a riff a number of times in a recording) without the treble kind of sound of chorus or the 'thin air' like sound of reverb.

Maybe I shoud be looking at a gated fuzz or synth kind of effect?

What do you think?

[gnasher1993]

Originally Posted by manchild

Yeah i see what you mean, but isn't chorus/modualtion closly related to delay/reverb in its application - except that as you have said, chorus puts the delayed signal slightly out of time with the dry signal and then blends to create that worble/tinny sound.

<snip>

What do you think?

I think you're getting confused .

Delay - time

Chorus - pitch

They're different effects entirely.

Chorus doesn't delay the signal and put it 'slightly out of time with the dry signal', it adds the note again, detuned by a few cents. This is what thickens the sound (by adding more notes) and adds the tinny warble effect that you're talking about.

Delay literally repeats the note you've played. Old tape delays had imperfections that added a chorus type 'warble' to the delayed sounds. This is what is meant when you here about 'modulated delays'. Confusing yes...

In terms of effects that can thicken your sound...do you have any examples of sounds you like?

I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for. I think you might be after something to warm up/thicken your sound. If that's the case you could try something like the VT Bass or the Catalinbread SFT.

[dannybuoy]

Chorus does in fact delay the signal:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Chorus/

You can get a chorus like effect from most delay pedals that have modulation, e.g. MXR Carbon Copy, EHX Memory Man / Boy / Toy. But it doesn't sound too good when you have really short delay times, you get a kind of comb filtering effect.

[gnasher1993]

Originally Posted by dannybuoy

Chorus does in fact delay the signal:

Yes, but that's not what creates the tinny, warbley sound that the OP is associating with the delay part of the sound. It's the detune (warble) that creates the tinny sound.

As has already been posted, chorus is chorus.

[manchild]

It is worth noting that chorus is related to flange and phasing in the sense that all 'modulate' the signal, but the style of timing is different. Im quite sure delay is a spread out reverb of sorts - so with that in mind if you sped up delay to the extent that the repeats were no longer 'heard' as individual notes would it not end up as a solid sounding reverb?

What im looking for is an effect that will thicken up the rhythm section of my 3 peice band when the guitarist is doing a lead solo, so that there is no 'hollow' backline sound normally found in the absense of a rhythm guitarist.

I would like a a very natural sound tat doesnt alter tone or sound strange.

I know there is prob no single effect that will gibe me what i need, so may need to look into a number of things. Maybe some dirt with octave and chorus would do the job? Or are there any synth sounds that are not too OTT???

[Thunderscreech]

It sounds like you want an octave pedal to give your bass a burst of high-ended-ness when your guitarist solos.

[Jazz Ad]

I think you're looking for an EHX Memory Man. It modulates delay to produce chorus.

[takfar]

Originally Posted by manchild

What im looking for is an effect that will thicken up the rhythm section of my 3 peice band when the guitarist is doing a lead solo, so that there is no 'hollow' backline sound normally found in the absense of a rhythm guitarist.

I've read the Akai Unibass is great for doing just that. You might want to do a search on it.

[bobbass4k]

One of my dd-20 presets is modulated delay set to 10ms, gives a kind of extreme chorus/vaguely phaserish hollow sound, setting a lower delay time (towards 1ms) and fiddling with the mix and repeats can coax some subtler more traditional chorusesque sounds out of it

[manchild]

Nice one thanks for the replies

[bassteban]

I think you're on the right track- I've used a very short-timed delay, w/the mix at 50/50(equal amounts dry/wet)& very little repeats; it gets a 'doubled' sound that seems to me to be what you're after. No specific suggestions on which delay, though I have an old Ibanez EM-5 w/internal trimpots that I'm sure could be tweaked to do this.

[TrevorOfDoom]

grab a digital delay, any of them. set it on the fastest delay time, and only one repeat. play it. it will have a warrbly chorusy sound that is the signal being delayed and out of phase. methinks that's what the OP wants, and almost any delay will give him that. do research and buy the one with the smallest min. delay time.

[Meddle]

Get a delay pedal and mod it so you can attach an expression pedal to the 'time' function. If you adjust subtly the delay time you create a modulation affect as you are setting the delay signal slightly out of time/tune with your clean signal. I can do it with an analogue delay I have (I stuck a hugh knurled telecaster knob onto the time setting so I can adjust it by foot).

Here is a sorta related video where the organist manually adjusts the tape on his maestro echoplex to slow it down (at 5:04 check out that chorus sound on the organ).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzoaWrRYg98

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by manchild

I dont like the tone of chorus or the worble effect when turned up high, but would like a sort of 'solid' reverb sound where the notes would be thickened (a bit like when you over dub a riff a number of times in a recording) without the treble kind of sound of chorus or the 'thin air' like sound of reverb.

Dude, I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm the same way, I don't like that warble. I've been searching for the type of sound you're talking about for a while now.

I tried the delay idea first, using a Line 6 Echo Park (clip) and it sounds pretty good, but like Gnasher said, it was a little too reverb for my taste.

I moved on to the EHX XO Clone Theory which was definitely the sound I was looking for (clip - chorus 1, chorus 2)... but it's just a little too noisy for my taste. I'm hanging onto it though, because it's a great sound, I just use it in specific applications where the noise disappears in a mix.

After the Clone Theory, I picked up a Boss PS-5 specifically for the Detune function, and it's been on my pedalboard for a while now. I put the blend at 50/50, delay at about 9:00 and adjust the detune to taste (but only a little bit). I'm really happy with the sound... very similar to the Clone Theory only without the noise. (clip 1 - various settings)(clip 2) The other functions of the pedal are icing on the cake, particularly the tremolo arm function!

My most recent pedal in the search is a custom Seraph from John Fromel. It's based on the old Boss DC-2 Dimension chorus... "a chorus pedal for people who don't like chorus." I mentioned I'm a bass player, so he said he'd "tune" it more for my instrument. He just finished it this weekend, so hopefully it'll be on it's way today. I'll get a feel for it and try to post some clips a.s.a.p. From the videos I've seen, it's another pedal that's right in line with the sound I'm looking for.

Hope that helps!

5sg.

[manchild]

Nice one Fivestring, thanks for that. Some real good advice and ideas

[lunarpollen]

When I set my Ibanez Delay Champ to minimum delay time, maximum delay level, and minimum (only 1) repeat, it gets that chorus type effect. Almost like ADT chorus. Add more repeats and it starts to sound really odd. Add too many repeats and it will begin to self-oscillate.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by manchild

Nice one Fivestring, thanks for that. Some real good advice and ideas

No problem, always happy when I can help out!

5sg.