Chris Wolstenholme: The Sticky Ver. 1

[Cornelius Dawse]

Woah, I've been waiting for volume 4! Thanks, Kaput, I'm a big fan of yours!
Regarding the Mastotron, you would still recommend it, right? Your review seemed to say it was very good, and to be honest, I'm not necessarly trying to get the exact Chris' tone, he just inspires me, I would say. And I'm pretty certain that I would have to blend the Big Muff to take full profit of it, and I really don't like blending...

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Muse Bass Tones Volume 4 is out now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPsGH...6h84lQ&index=2

I enjoyed the video, not sure about the part where you compared you educating people to his tones to curing blindness though...

You don't talk much about the studio editing which must have taken place over the albums. Are you sure this high percentage of his album sound is stompboxes? I think a closer look at his compression is really important too.

Also, you're not playing some of the parts right, particularly on the older songs (chorus to Hysteria etc). There are a few isolated tracks of his bass around, you might find these useful.

[kaputsport]

Deleted... Not feeding the troll.

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

I have those tracks, did you not see the lack of studio bass in the older vids?

As for not playing the parts right, I never claimed to be perfect. I got the sound though, so I guess I'm doing something right.

As for the studio editing vs stompboxes... Yea, I am sure. You cannot studio edit something like the animato distortion. Follow me, is clearly studio produced. To think that he is no longer contributing to his sound in the recording process is hilarious. EVERYONE went goo goo gaa gaa over pics of his gear in the studio, and yet we still have this idea that he isn't playing it, or that the sound was a computer.

Thanks for watching.

Why can't you edit the Animato? Even if they were recording straight to tape (which of course they aren't) a lot of editing can be done. Are you suggesting that no EQ/compression/triggering happens when he's using his pedals?

EDIT: How was my post trolling...?

[kaputsport]

No, that is not what I am saying. It is quite obvious they compress and EQ the sound. Triggering is another mystery to me. Are you assuming they are reaping or using his signal to trigger another?

I don't consider EQ/Compression part of the sound, as the fundamental of the tone is there. I never once stated I could perfectly nail every single nuance of the studio tone. No one can live, or even in your bedroom, no matter how much gear you have. It is silly to think you can, or could.

Should next episode be me recording bass parts and editing them in Logic to show proper EQ for an album no one is recording? Should I discuss post production compression so you can apply it to your playing? Seriously man, just stop.

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

No, that is not what I am saying. It is quite obvious they compress and EQ the sound. Triggering is another mystery to me. Are you assuming they are reaping or using his signal to trigger another?

Yep, it happens all the time. It's very common.

Originally Posted by kaputsport

I don't consider EQ/Compression part of the sound, as the fundamental of the tone is there. I never once stated I could perfectly nail every single nuance of the studio tone. No one can live, or even in your bedroom, no matter how much gear you have. It is silly to think you can, or could.

There's no way you can produce anything about the tone of an instrument without talking about eq or compression. It's a massive part of the sound. You're lucky enough to own a studio so you must realise that.

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Should next episode be me recording bass parts and editing them in Logic to show proper EQ for an album no one is recording? Should I discuss post production compression so you can apply it to your playing? Seriously man, just stop.

That actually sounds quite interesting, but I find the fact that you're ignoring that as part of your Bass Tones video odd. Perhaps you should rename it "Pedals that Chris from Muse uses' to make it more obvious what you're doing.

[kaputsport]

Originally Posted by juan_king

Yep, it happens all the time. It's very common.

Sure, and the only place I could see this actually taking affect, are Follow Me and Unsustainable. Even if they are, which I doubt, it is not the point of the videos, and you know that.

Originally Posted by juan_king

There's no way you can produce anything about the tone of an instrument without talking about eq or compression. It's a massive part of the sound. You're lucky enough to own a studio so you must realise that.

I do know that, but we are not recording these parts. We are playing them live. If what you are saying is true, no one in the free world, including artists who recorded the songs should ever play live, since the live setting is different than the studio setting. You asked how your posts are trolling, I think this is a clear indicator.

Originally Posted by juan_king

That actually sounds quite interesting, but I find the fact that you're ignoring that as part of your Bass Tones video odd. Perhaps you should rename it "Pedals that Chris from Muse uses' to make it more obvious what you're doing.

Why would I make a series of videos showing what pedals he uses. Magazines and other publications do that for you. These videos use practical knowledge and experimentation to recreate the sounds of his parts as close to the album as possible in a live setting.

Until I came along, NO ONE IN THE WORLD had a convincing Hysteria tone, at least that they publicized.

You want to get specific? Ok. I can't do exactly what is on the album. Why? I am not running 3 simultaneous rigs, I don't own the exact basses he is using, nor the type of string, I attack my instrument differently, and I am sure as stone not in the same studio. The atmosphere could be different, from temps to pressure, to size of room to the cable he is using. His rack gear path has a profound effect on his sound, and further to the point, his basses could be modded by Manson.

I put this info out there to help others get close, or as close as possible. I am not getting anything out of this. No youtube money, nothing. Out of all my videos, these are the second through 5th most watched, and I make nothing on them. I do them for the good of the community. No one ever said I was the authority, and if they did, it is not a self proclaimed title. Asking me to dive into compression and EQ post recording is as ridiculous as asking you to track bass for Paul McCartney. It is IMPOSSIBLE to address these things live without using a recording rig with live plugins, and sending a monitor mix to the house, which is something I would never do. If you want to EQ and compress your attempts at something, go for it.

As for you, I am moving on. I don't owe you an explanation. I don't owe you anything. Produce your own videos, showing your stuff, build enough credibility for people to pay attention, and get your point across that way. I stopped coming here because of people like you. Complain, and moan all day, question a person for doing something, then add snide little remarks about deleting posts and talking to yourself.

Get over it. This thread was tainted and still is, because all you do is argue asinine points that mean nothing to a 14 year old kid trying to play his new favorite song. You want to redo it for real, with all your post production techniques... Be my guest. I just hope you are Rich Costey or Matt Bellamy... Otherwise, you will come up short, and miss the point. Half of which has already happened.

[Cornelius Dawse]

Originally Posted by juan_king

That actually sounds quite interesting, but I find the fact that you're ignoring that as part of your Bass Tones video odd. Perhaps you should rename it "Pedals that Chris from Muse uses' to make it more obvious what you're doing.

Well, I don't know for you, but personnaly, I really enjoy Kaput's videos. All of them. And that seems to be the general opinion around here, they're extremely informative and helped me a lot regarding effects in general, not only for Chris' tone.
Don't you think you're pushing it too hard? Should'nt be trolling all about subtlety?

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Sure, and the only place I could see this actually taking affect, are Follow Me and Unsustainable. Even if they are, which I doubt, it is not the point of the videos, and you know that.



I do know that, but we are not recording these parts. We are playing them live. If what you are saying is true, no one in the free world, including artists who recorded the songs should ever play live, since the live setting is different than the studio setting. You asked how your posts are trolling, I think this is a clear indicator.



Why would I make a series of videos showing what pedals he uses. Magazines and other publications do that for you. These videos use practical knowledge and experimentation to recreate the sounds of his parts as close to the album as possible in a live setting.

Until I came along, NO ONE IN THE WORLD had a convincing Hysteria tone, at least that they publicized.

You want to get specific? Ok. I can't do exactly what is on the album. Why? I am not running 3 simultaneous rigs, I don't own the exact basses he is using, nor the type of string, I attack my instrument differently, and I am sure as stone not in the same studio. The atmosphere could be different, from temps to pressure, to size of room to the cable he is using. His rack gear path has a profound effect on his sound, and further to the point, his basses could be modded by Manson.

I put this info out there to help others get close, or as close as possible. I am not getting anything out of this. No youtube money, nothing. Out of all my videos, these are the second through 5th most watched, and I make nothing on them. I do them for the good of the community. No one ever said I was the authority, and if they did, it is not a self proclaimed title. Asking me to dive into compression and EQ post recording is as ridiculous as asking you to track bass for Paul McCartney. It is IMPOSSIBLE to address these things live without using a recording rig with live plugins, and sending a monitor mix to the house, which is something I would never do. If you want to EQ and compress your attempts at something, go for it.

As for you, I am moving on. I don't owe you an explanation. I don't owe you anything. Produce your own videos, showing your stuff, build enough credibility for people to pay attention, and get your point across that way. I stopped coming here because of people like you. Complain, and moan all day, question a person for doing something, then add snide little remarks about deleting posts and talking to yourself.

Get over it. This thread was tainted and still is, because all you do is argue asinine points that mean nothing to a 14 year old kid trying to play his new favorite song. You want to redo it for real, with all your post production techniques... Be my guest. I just hope you are Rich Costey or Matt Bellamy... Otherwise, you will come up short, and miss the point. Half of which has already happened.

I'm not trying to completely criticise your videos, I think that some of what you say in them is interesting and that it's a fitting conclusion to what must have been hours of work for you. All I'm saying is that I find it odd that you don't even remark on post-tracking editing. It must be worth even 2 or 3 minutes of a half hour video, even if only to explain why some of your pedal combinations don't come close - it's obviously something you're educated in.

If you really don't want me to express my opinion on your work or posts, then please don't say things like:

"Until I came along, NO ONE IN THE WORLD had a convincing Hysteria tone, at least that they publicized. "

That's an amazing thing to say - how can you possibly prove that?

At the very least, I think you should make clear that you are demonstrating an opinion of how he creates his album tones. this argument has come about because I believe you present it as a documentation of his signal chain, which is misleading.

[Matt Golgotha]

Hey Kaput. I've bought an animato and badger schism last month (soon to be a diceworks muff diver finale too for those muff sounds) off the strength of your videos - already had the dbs rig for about 4 years. Hope you keep knocking these clips out mate

[StuBrew]

Thanks Kaput, Im new on here but those video's are really informative. Could you explain a bit more about his pedal chain and how you think he uses it in the studio and live, especially stuff off the new album?
It would be great to hear how you think he approaches the use of studio gear in his rig along with all his basses, amps and pedals!

[kaputsport]

Originally Posted by juan_king

I'm not trying to completely criticise your videos, I think that some of what you say in them is interesting and that it's a fitting conclusion to what must have been hours of work for you. All I'm saying is that I find it odd that you don't even remark on post-tracking editing. It must be worth even 2 or 3 minutes of a half hour video, even if only to explain why some of your pedal combinations don't come close - it's obviously something you're educated in.

If you really don't want me to express my opinion on your work or posts, then please don't say things like:

"Until I came along, NO ONE IN THE WORLD had a convincing Hysteria tone, at least that they publicized. "

That's an amazing thing to say - how can you possibly prove that?

At the very least, I think you should make clear that you are demonstrating an opinion of how he creates his album tones. this argument has come about because I believe you present it as a documentation of his signal chain, which is misleading.

I am going to paint you a picture of what is going on, and then I am done. After this post, I will no longer respond to anything you have to say, because it is quite obvious you have no intention of taking what could be great information, applying it to whatever your interest is, and using it. Instead, you wish to argue semantics, and discuss topics which are really not something that is the point of what is going on.

First, it is impractical to address post production in a studio I was not present in for a recording I did not witness. It is also impractical to address these same issues for a live rig, but a person who is a bass player. these are done by engineers to ensure a smooth and correct sounding album/live performance, and exists everywhere in the musical world. Sure, we could say that there is post production, but that is a given. This series is not meant to show you how to record and master your tone to sound like him. It was designed to show what gear is used, and how to approach his sound to play along with, or to use live. You want to wax philosophical about post production chains to which you have absolutely no knowledge about? Go ahead, but you will sound like an idiot, especially if you don't have ACTUAL knowledge of the topic, only to attempt to fake your way through it. I don't bother learning about the studio they are recording in, or the signal chain in post because the variables are so vast, that no one, including Bellamy could tell you everything.

I understand EQ and compression have a little to do with the overall sound on an album, but the fundemental tone is what makes the "sound". Shaping it after it is recorded just enhances the tone, not remakes it. Sh!t goes in, you get sh!t out... Put gold in, you get gold out, just louder and a little more clear.

Secondly, I challenge you to find a documented case (recorded in audio or video) that shows Hysteria as close to the album as humanly possible being played by one person, with a stringed instrument before my thread and videos came out. Do it. I have yet to find ANYONE that has gotten this close. Am I a God for it? No. I applied logic to the idea, and figured it out. Am I bragging? A little bit, but I also realize it was not rocket science. The fact that your attitude towards this thread has been one of condescension since day 1 has made me not care of your opinion of me, my work, or what I say. This happened 3 pages ago, and is happening again, and I for one am tired of having to explain anything to someone that feels this is appropriate to do in any thread.

Third, and finally, his signal chain is represented. It is as close as ANYONE outside of Chris and his tech Shane will be able to do. No one knows his exact routing after he moved to rack switchers, and no one will ever know his POD settings, or other rack effects settings. What we have found is based off of the OoS board, that his effects lay in this configuration, or close to it. I don't own everything he has, and I don't really want to. To say that my videos, titles and information is misleading is a crock. I have NEVER proclaimed that I know everything, and that I am 100% right. I use the tools I have, and the information I find to reconstruct these sounds. Others have been doing it since recorded music was invented. Some discuss technique, others tone and sounds created. Some look at recording techniques, others focus on tangible gear. The only person voicing anything remotely like you are talking about is you. 45,000 plus views can't be wrong.

Don't think for a second that I am attempting to make everyone bow to me, like the God of Wolstenholme. Don't think for a second I am purposefully misleading anyone with what I am doing. Stop taking things too seriously. I am OPENLY passing along the knowledge I have to a community of people looking for it. Constructive criticism is great, but that is not what you are doing. You are condescending, constantly undermining my videos, and attempting to poke holes in anything I say. You are the definition of a troll.

I hope acting like this was worth the serious thread derailment... TWICE. I hope you are satisfied in your questions, and I hope all your concerns were addressed. You have far surpassed your usefulness in this thread, and will be ignored from now on by myself, and I hope the rest of this forum does the same. Call it what you want to, but your approach, and attitude have pushed this conversation this far. Your relevance to the topic is is over. Go into the Tool FX thread, and ask those guys (who have spent more time and energy on Justins sound) why they don't discuss post stream mixing and mastering. You will most likely get the same attitude and dismissal from those guys. Even if they answer your question with polite attitudes, you will get the same "we can't speculate on any of that" and "we just don't know, so why bother discussing it" answers.

[A Strohman]

I haven't always seen eye to eye with kaputsport in other threads but I think attempting to call him out for not discussing every nuance of Wolstenholme's recorded tone is just silly. Clearly, kaputsport has invested a lot of time (and alot of cash) recreating many of the tones Wolstenholme has created over the years. If I was in Muse tribute band or otherwise wanted to create Muse tones live, kaput's vids would be the first place I would go.....which, I think, is the point of his vids. If I wanted to exactly copy Wolstenholme's recorded tone while in the studio (after I asked myself why in the world I needed to copy his EXACT sound) I would research the recording I was trying to copy and try to get some aditional info. What I wouldn't do is go to kaputsport's youtube vids and expect him to provide that info. But thats just me....

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by A Strohman

I haven't always seen eye to eye with kaputsport in other threads but I think attempting to call him out for not discussing every nuance of Wolstenholme's recorded tone is just silly. Clearly, kaputsport has invested a lot of time (and alot of cash) recreating many of the tones Wolstenholme has created over the years. If I was in Muse tribute band or otherwise wanted to create Muse tones live, kaput's vids would be the first place I would go.....which, I think, is the point of his vids. If I wanted to exactly copy Wolstenholme's recorded tone while in the studio (after I asked myself why in the world I needed to copy his EXACT sound) I would research the recording I was trying to copy and try to get some aditional info. What I wouldn't do is go to kaputsport's youtube vids and expect him to provide that info. But thats just me....

I completely agree with you - all I'm saying is that it's odd that that isn't mentioned. Most bass players will be trying to achieve CW's recorded tone, and this is a massive part of it.

[kaputsport]

You are completely missing the point, but as always, you will continue to drive home something that is irrelevant to this discussion until we ignore you enough you disappear for a few months, or myself or a mod step in and edit the thread.

The funny part is that I seem to get really close to the recorded tone, and in some cases get closer to the studio tone than he does live, without the use of EQ and Compression. I record the sounds you are making with a $500 camcorder, not a mic'ed cab, or direct line in and as most will tell you, I am right there with the recorded tones.

What I have learned is that it is not all about the bass, or the exact pedal settings, or the chain for more simple stuff. Sure, it all plays into it, but it is the amp. How else can I copy a sound recorded on a jazz bass or status bass and it ends up sounding very close if not dead on, even without going so far as to discuss post recording mixing and mastering techniques.

So for the sake of the community, and all that is common decency... Stop with the arguing, and the incessant clamoring on about something so insignificant in the process that you are turning people away from reading about it. I am glad you have taken an invested interest in something technical, and want to understand all the facts, but I am not the person to give them to you. Contact Rich Costey, or Matt Bellamy for that info if you could even get in touch with them, or get any sort of info out of them. I doubt either would happen.

I'm done here. I'll return with another video in due time.

[StuBrew]

Is this you Kaputsport? Seems a bit dodgy and out of character from someone as knowledgable as you!

http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread....ow-us-sexy...&

[kaputsport]

Originally Posted by StuBrew

Is this you Kaputsport? Seems a bit dodgy and out of character from someone as knowledgable as you!

http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread....ow-us-sexy...&

Yea, 4 years ago I was dabbling in model photography, and wanted to get some ideas from others in the biz, so I posted on the site, as well as many other things relating to many other things.

For the record, I was 27 at that time, and I am now 32.

[StuBrew]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Yea, 4 years ago I was dabbling in model photography, and wanted to get some ideas from others in the biz, so I posted on the site, as well as many other things relating to many other things.

For the record, I was 27 at that time, and I am now 32.

Cool, we've all been, I did the same when I was 12 lol!

Back to the subject in hand, have you thought about getting in touch with Rich Costey and seeing what info he can give you with regards to Chris's sound to get you a bit closer? You should try him on twitter.

[kaputsport]

I actually have, but nothing he can give will help you do it live, so it is a moot point.

[juan_king]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

I actually have, but nothing he can give will help you do it live, so it is a moot point.

You've spoken to him? What did he say?