Church/CCM Compression

jomcc26 · #1 01-14-2011, 07:19 AM

Hey all,
I'm kind of new to the forum world, and VERY new to effects. I did a bit of searching already, but I'm still in the dark, as it were.
I am looking for some opinions from Church/CCM players about compression pedals. Our music is a little more on the "rockin" side, and my biggest problems right now are losing my highs in the mix, overpowering lows with little definition, and clipping at moderate volumes. I've tried many EQ settings to round it out, but am still having problems. Is a compressor even what I need? Do you have suggestions on models, or other ways to work on my sound?
THanks!

bassman1185 · #2 01-14-2011, 07:23 AM

A compressor is probably not what you are looking for.

Can you outline your setup so we can see what might be causing the problems?

Bass?
Amp?
DI?
Pedals?
Sound system?
Other misc stuff?

Joe Smithberger · #3 01-14-2011, 07:39 AM

Sounds like you need to look at input gains on the amp and/or house mixer. In large, hard surfaced, rooms, the bass frequencies will take over if it's not watched like a hawk. I try not to ever boost bass on any EQs at my church - cut highs instead. If your EQ has a low center (like 40 hz) you can cut a little bass and see how that works. You should also check to see that the mixers high pass filters are on any open mics and the guitars. An acoustic guitar with the bass EQ boosted will make the mix sound bass heavy. When that happens, everyone assumes it's the bass when it is really the acoustic.

Back to your original question, I haven't found that normal compression helps a lot in this situation unless it is more of a limiter. I use a boss LMB3 with one of my basses that is set up with a relatively low threshold and a low ratio to tame a boomy B string. I do like amp simulators with my passive basses like the SFT and the VT bass because they roll off the deepest frequencies to sound more like an SVT or B15 and kind of smooth out the sound. The Catalinbread SFT with bass and treble controls at 11:00 and the gain set kinda low is my current weapon of choice with my P5.

jomcc26 · #4 01-14-2011, 06:17 PM

ok! i'm glad you're so eager to help! I didn't realize how in depth we would be going so lets start over...

I'm getting back into it after couple years hiatus, and have never really gotten down and dirty really tweaking my tone to perfection

Passive Jazz bass > GK Backline 600 > GK 410 BLX
No effects at the moment (planning on getting a few)

I'm looking to sculpt my tone a bit for the "rock" church and CCM sound and would love some opinions on how to do that

With or without PAs, I can never get the perfect storm of punch, clarity and low end power. If I tweak my amp's eq, it's either overpowering with the low notes and highs that dont cut, or a tinny sound that cuts right through.

I was thinking compression (coupled with an Aphex Bass Exciter??) might help me tighten up and equalize everything, as well as give me options to dial in different tones

How's that?

Joey

bassman1185 · #5 01-14-2011, 06:42 PM

Boost your mids, roll back on your low-lows. I think that will help you more than anything. If you're running through a large PA system (especially if the soundman is inexperienced) it is REALLY easy for bass to turn into a big wall of mud. Cutting the really deep low end adds a lot of clarity, and the midrange makes your bass sound fatter in the mix.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that you've been trying to EQ your bass by yourself (not with the band present). You're learning that what sounds awesome by itself will often sound TERRIBLE in a band mix. Solo, a really midrangy bass sound is pretty unpleasent, but it fits in the mix really well.

Rob22315 · #6 01-14-2011, 07:03 PM

Start with the sound board and make sure your treble isn't being cut off by the equalizer there. I'd start with all those settings in the middle, including any volume or trim sliders then see what your bass sounds like. You don't want a situation where you're fighting the sound board with the limited controls on your guitar.

Once you get those right and can get the bass controls in an effective zone, then you can work on the clipping. Are your lowest strings clipping or is everything clipping? A compressor up front can help even out volume variations between strings and, in extreme cases, squash excess signal from hot pickup or strings. On my current pups, the E and B strings are really hot. A bass limiter/expander gets those two strings under control.

johndough247 · #7 01-14-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomcc26

ok! i'm glad you're so eager to help! I didn't realize how in depth we would be going so lets start over...

I'm getting back into it after couple years hiatus, and have never really gotten down and dirty really tweaking my tone to perfection

Passive Jazz bass > GK Backline 600 > GK 410 BLX
No effects at the moment (planning on getting a few)

I'm looking to sculpt my tone a bit for the "rock" church and CCM sound and would love some opinions on how to do that

With or without PAs, I can never get the perfect storm of punch, clarity and low end power. If I tweak my amp's eq, it's either overpowering with the low notes and highs that dont cut, or a tinny sound that cuts right through.

I was thinking compression (coupled with an Aphex Bass Exciter??) might help me tighten up and equalize everything, as well as give me options to dial in different tones

How's that?

Joey

Hey Joey, you never mentioned what kind of room you're in, cause that affects everything as said before.

That said, you mention highs and lows but nothing of the mids, which i think maybe is what you're missing. Ok my (humble) suggestions (i'm working off a picture I have of a backline 600 controls and previous experience using one):

Bass: since u said passive J-bass i'm assuming volume/volume/tone...first off make sure your strings still have some 'zing' to them. turn up all three knobs then back off the neck pickup just a tad so you don't get the scooped mids J-Bass effect (but not to the point of Jaco-like burp). Short of favoring the bridge PU heavily (or exclusively), a good sounding Jazz Bass will still have some low end oomph with just a touch more bridge for that mid-range definition.

Amp: From what I remember that amp has more of a forward "modern" sound. As mentioned before by another poster, gain staging is key...I would start with low gain settings and low volume settings. try leaving the lows flat and work more with the low mids. I'd stay away from the contour, that USUALLY adds a scooped mids (smiley face EQ) sound. Get the sound right at a low volume.

Increase the gain, but at the same time ride the master volume to keep levels consistent...you wanna reach the point where you're noticably clipping the pre (so not to confuse with pushing the cab too hard), then back off the gain a lil bit. The point of this is trying to eliminate as much of the room as possible out of the equation to get "the sound". U might have to tweak the EQ again because of the increase in gain may affect the tone.

Increasing the Master Volume to acceptable levels is the tricky part because, again, I don't know what the room is like, and as such, I don't know if the amp isn't powerful enough to support the stage comfortably.

Hope this helps, it worked for me in the past several times...Oh and I wholeheartedly agree with the acoustic guitar (and the PIANO) taking up too much low end in the room...so maybe if this is the case y'all can talk it over

Good luck!

johndough247 · #8 01-14-2011, 07:17 PM

haha thats what you get for trying to post, leaving the room and coming back a few mins later to send the reply...yea what those other guys said too lol

johndough247 · #9 01-14-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman1185

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that you've been trying to EQ your bass by yourself (not with the band present). You're learning that what sounds awesome by itself will often sound TERRIBLE in a band mix. Solo, a really midrangy bass sound is pretty unpleasent, but it fits in the mix really well.

+100!

**TheMutt** · #10 01-15-2011, 03:58 AM

Being a Church/CCM bassist myself, I'd definitely have to echo what everyone else has said.

I used to use a compressor, but all it did was squash down my tone and make me sit under the mix most of the time, even on very light compression settings.

I'd steer clear of the bass xciter as I am sure that you can get exactly what you want out of your amp as it stands.

Definitely lower your bass EQ just a little as it will bounce out around most small rooms as a wall of mud, or around large churches with high ceilings as very indistinct.

Mids are definitely the key to being heard in a mix, especially in my opinion the high mids. If you're going for somewhat of that Hillsong kind of vibe, you would want to favor your bridge pickup and boost the low and high mids a little. Also try plucking or picking closer to the bridge.

Don't go too crazy on the highs as they can become quite shrill, and encroach on the guitar's domain.

Otherwise, there are a plethora of effects that can definitely be used for this type of music. But it's really a personal preference kind of thing as to what you are going to use.

jomcc26 · #11 01-20-2011, 09:51 AM

thanks a lot for the tips everyone, I'll be sure to experiment and find out what works!
God bless
Joey

mkandolf · #12 01-20-2011, 10:10 AM

Joey,

Check out Tech 21's Sansamp Paradriver ($210) or Bass Driver ($200). Both are great DI and tone boxes. I prefer and use the Paradriver myself in our worship setting. The manual that comes with it has several great tone setting suggestions, plus shows you how to set the box up for compression as well. These are very versatile boxes and should be in every bassist's tool klt.

The Bass Driver does come in a 3-channel programmable ($210) and deluxe 2x3 channel version ($270) which you can programm for different songs if you like.

Mike