Clean and dirty, a la Chancellor

[nastyn8c]

First off, don't tell me to search, because that was the first thing I tried, albeit unsuccessfully.

So I had this idea: For a huge tone, run my bass into my SM-400S, then go stereo. Have one channel running clean into my 2x12 (Kappa Pro's do HUGE lows and low-mids), one running dirty into my 1x12 with the tweeter off.

SO....

What types of effects should I look at for the "dirty" sound? It will be in the effects loop, so something with true bypass would be nice, but not necessary, because it will only be used at really loud live events.

[dirtgroove]

this may be of interest to you. Thank walbassplayer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPA015Gjyt4

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by nastyn8c

First off, don't tell me to search, because that was the first thing I tried, albeit unsuccessfully. ...What types of effects should I look at for the "dirty" sound?

you searched on "distortion", "Chancellor", "dirt", "tool", and terms like that and didn't come up with anything?

[The BurgerMeister]

^ +1.

¿Qué?

[Niff]

to completely copy off justin, try a proco turbo RAT with an EQ for the dirty channel - when i played round with a turbo RAT, it was the only really high-gain pedal that i could get a sweet growl out of with the distortion knob relatively low - it just lost quite a lot (if not all) of low end. that's where the EQ comes into play.

[BassSurfer]

i have to admit the search engine here is not that good... but maybe different terms would of helped.. there is tons of info on justin here..

[The BurgerMeister]

and don't forget: talkbass, as awesome as it is, isn't the be-all/end-all repository of information about bass, bassists, bass gear.

don't forget about google.com!

[JonathanD]

Take your rig to a store and see what sounds good to you.
Jonathan

[TaySte_2000]

I don't think you'll be able to do this with the gear you have mentioned unless it has 2 effects loops (1 per channel) and then you'll struggle to use any floor pedals as you'd be running them at line level which is too hot for them.

You'll need 2 amps or 2 preamps into a stereo power amp if you search my posts and stuff I did this recently and while it worked great I ended up going back to my old setup when I realised that the sound man had control of my mix of clean and dirty.

Hope this helps

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by nastyn8c

...What types of effects should I look at for the "dirty" sound?..

I get excellent results with GK Diesel Dawg to CEB-3 to ODB-3.

The settings are approximately -
- Dawg: level=10:00, lows=11:00, mids=2:00, edge=10:30, gain=11:00-12:00.
- CEB: level=5:00, filter=10:00-12:00, speed=1:00, depth=11:30
- ODB: output=3:30, bass and treble=noonish, blend=10:00, gain=5:00

I get the clean/dirt mix using the two-loop LS-2 line switcher in "A+B" mode

Joe

[ihateusernames]

I'd suggest that distortion or OD through the effects loop rather than in front of the amp doesn't sound that great in most cases.

[bassgod0dmw]

Originally Posted by ihateusernames

I'd suggest that distortion or OD through the effects loop rather than in front of the amp doesn't sound that great in most cases.

+1 to that. I'd run an OD/distortion/fuzz in front...not in the loop.

How exactly are you going to do this setup? You have a single channel amp, correct? You aren't going to be able to single out which cab gets that distortion you're talking about.

What you are describing is a bi-amp setup...for which you'll need 2 amps...not just 2 cabs.

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

What you are describing is a bi-amp setup...for which you'll need 2 amps...not just 2 cabs.

That's why he was thinking of a stereo poweramp and just 1 preamp. But IMHO, it's nowhere near as good as having 2 preamps and 2 poweramps (or 2 heads) for a clean/dirty setup.

[Trevor.A]

You could have a blend loop to blend the dirty with the clean before you go into your amp. It don't think it would sound as good as a bi-amped rigged, but it's easier and gets the job done.

Originally Posted by Joe P

I get excellent results with GK Diesel Dawg to CEB-3 to ODB-3.

The settings are approximately -
- Dawg: level=10:00, lows=11:00, mids=2:00, edge=10:30, gain=11:00-12:00.
- CEB: level=5:00, filter=10:00-12:00, speed=1:00, depth=11:30
- ODB: output=3:30, bass and treble=noonish, blend=10:00, gain=5:00

I get the clean/dirt mix using the two-loop LS-2 line switcher in "A+B" mode

Joe

Do you have, or know of any, clips of the Diesel Dawg? I can't find much on it.

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by Trevor.A

Do you have, or know of any, clips of the Diesel Dawg? I can't find much on it.

He did whole videos!

Let me see if I can dig up the thread.

I've said plenty on it, too, because of its similarity to the 2001RB's overdrive (same circuit, slightly different controls).

[osciphex]

Here's my big peice of advice as I just went through this same adventure of trying to get that modern J.C.-esque picking tone:

All these overdrive pedals people are recommending will only help if your bass already has that ultra-modern, active sound with big lows & aggressive highs (Like Justin's Wal basses.)

I have a very punchy, midrangey passive J-bass. When I run my bass through the Diesel Dawg or English Muff'n; it generally still sounds like a midrangey J-bass (albiet dirty.) Even tweaking my amp's EQ (GK 1001RB-II) does not really nail that "Tool" sound.

What did work was putting a Sansamp PBDDI in the chain. With the PBDDI set to "SVT style" or "Distorted bass" and my amp's EQ flat, I can finally get a great picking sound for Tool songs.

Once this has been done, the Diesel Dawg is great to add extra dirt when it's needed. For a "metal" pedal, the Diesel Dawg certainly is very smooth sounding. Much smoother than the English Muff'n. There is a certain fizzy-ness about the Muff'n that the Diesel Dawg avoids completely. And it reeeeally cuts through guitar & drum sounds well. (However, this is at the expense of smoothing out the tone that you worked so hard to make aggressive for Tool)

These compliments said, the Diesel Dawg definately saps out some lows, and this is very apparent when its put in the chain after the mega-low-boosting Sansamp. Also, it seems to introduce more noise than most of my other pedals when engaged.

I'm torn on the Diesel Dawg... on the one hand its great to have it there as a fuzz tone when I need a fuzz tone; I turned it on during the verse of "By the Way" by RHCP and the result was unexpectedly awesome. On the other hand, the pedal is expensive for one that I'll only be using on 2 or 3 songs. And it's huuuge. And heeeaaavy. But I already have a PBDDI sitting there, so one more huge pedal might be ok.

I'm considering sending it back and getting a lower cost pedal just for fuzz, like the Little Big Muff. I need to investigate how "fizzy" that one is though.

[Lowpro]

I've gotta say this BTW before I forget.

Guys, i've been on the Nicotine patches for 2 weeks now, and those things give you some crazy dreams. Like, they're freakin real man, and everything's in the right place. Like, one time I actually got in my car and drive to work IN MY DREAM, and took every turn, everything. It was awesome.

But that's not the point. here's what I'm getting at.

Two nights ago I had a dream that I went to a Tool concert. And it was awesome, like my heart was beating, we're rocking out, and I see a guy next to me with glasses and a Giants baseball cap pull out a rifle and shoot and killed Justin Chancellor. And I remember the exact feeling of pretty having my heart torn out, leaving a hole so wide and deep you could see angels cry. I woke up in a cold sweat, and felt just morbid. I couldn't shake it off for like 10 minutes. And then when I drove to work I remembered the dream, and that same rush of fear washed over me for another 10 minutes.

I realized two things. Im obsessed with Justin Chancellor, and smoking may be the better option.


Continue.


Also, to add to the debate on Justin's sound. I recommend first having an active bass. If you don't have one, you can do a few things. BBE makes 2 pedals, the Sonic Stomp and Boosta Granda. These really beef your tone up. I use the Sonic Stomp AND the Sansamp BDDI. What I get is an ultra hot, awesome sound that cuts through the mix VERY well. This actually gets me a GREAT JC tone with my Spector NS4CR. He uses the Procorat for his dirty channel but if you don't ahve that option, you can do two MORE things. One, get the GT2/XXL (both are Tech 21 pedals) OR! Instead of getting the Sansamp, get the MXR Distortion DI pedal. That adds a VERY nice grit, which impresses me. I recommend if you're getting the MXR to ALSO get the BBE pedal because the MXR doesn't quite push the signal as much as the Sansamp does.

Try those ideas out.

[syciprider]

Ooookaaaaay....

[syciprider]

To the OP: and as you can see, most of us no life FX geeks would rather second guess your searching competency in your own thread than actually help you out. However, if you are a well established member you can ask the exact same question and no one will second guess you.

[Lowpro]

The first step's admitting it though, isn't it =(

It's kinda wierd though, because that same day, yesterday, Joe Zawinul passed away, so it's sorta like an omen. Then again, that may have just been a coincidence.

Strange **** happens on the patch is all I'm gonna say on this subject though.