The Cliff Burton Sound

Jubey Monster · #1 11-10-2008, 02:49 AM

Right I'll cut to the chase here. I live in Australia where it is rather difficult to get my hands on a morley power wah boost. Is Morley's Mark Tremonti wah a good substitute?

Mark Olson · #2 11-10-2008, 02:54 AM

They say the Tremonti wah sounds alright with bass, and I'd wanted to give it a try, but after I tried a few different units of the newest Morley Bass Wah I was so turned off by Morleys I never got around to trying the Tremonti wah. But is an old Morley Power Wah that hard to find? I've got an old Morley Power Wah Fuzz (still the same wah circuit, and I've read differing things saying that Cliff Burton used the PWB while others say he used the PWF).

Mark Olson · #3 11-10-2008, 02:57 AM

Oh I see it's your first post... I guess that sounds like a scam if you don't know me from this forum... so just pretend I didn't say that.

JanusZarate · #4 11-10-2008, 03:39 AM

The current Power Wah (with the Boost knob) is a great substitute. I've heard similar good things about the Tremonti Wah, but I haven't had a chance to actually use that one yet.

I've used a few different Morley pedals including an old chrome Power Wah, and the current Power Wah does get close. As long as you have a good high-gain distortion or fuzz pedal to pair with it, and a good understanding of how to use a wah to get a tone similar to Burton's, then you'll be able to cover his solos pretty easily.

Jubey Monster · #5 11-10-2008, 02:27 PM

Wow, a plethora of comments already. I checked out the power wah (PWO) on Morley's website and it didn't list a boost function in the features. Does Morley also offer a PWO with a boost knob?

I'd love to take you up on your offer Mark, just got to check with mum first. (are we allowed to discuss this in this forum?) - [Edit grygrx: NO]

Thanks a lot for the help everyone!

JanusZarate · #6 11-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubey Monster

Wow, a plethora of comments already. I checked out the power wah (PWO) on Morley's website and it didn't list a boost function in the features. Does Morley also offer a PWO with a boost knob?

The current version (on the website) has a Boost knob. It's not visible in the picture, but that's what the "level" knob is labeled with.

The original chrome PWO had no gain control. The PWB did, and had a huge range of gain. The modern PWO has a large range of gain, too - you won't have a problem being too quiet.

gm jack · #7 11-10-2008, 03:12 PM

I was incredibly disappointed with the new Power Wah actually. I haven't got any of the old ones to compare it with, but it sounded far weaker sounding and with far less range than recordings of the old ones suggested. The sweep in the middle of physical sweep was incredible, but other than that centre third, it seemed to do nothing at all.

Jubey Monster · #8 11-10-2008, 11:34 PM

Ok, so does the boost knob on the new PWO just alter the level? I'm currently using a morley pro series wah (II I think) which has just a level knob. I really like this wah, but it doesn't have that high end "scream" that i really like. I guess my final question is does the new PWO actually achieve that boost "scream" or is it just a level knob in disguise?

P.S thank you all so much for the help, I've learn't more here in the last 24 hrs than I have surfing the net over the past month.

Mark Olson · #9 11-10-2008, 11:46 PM

So far as a I know, the boost doesn't play a role in Cliff Burton's sound, I'm pretty sure if he used the power wah boost he didn't use the boost on it; the boost on it is just a clean booster that is capable of providing a lot of signal boost, which can be used to push a tube amp or something, but I don't think it's going to give you any more "scream". In my experience that classic Cliff Burton "scream" is just part of the sound of the old vintage chrome wah series, though I don't have knowledge of their later power wahs to know if that scream from the vintage chrome wah got translated into the later incarnations of the pedal. What's unique about the old chrome wahs is that they were made for any instrument, and have a ridiculously large sweep, from 20 Hz to very high, I'm not sure how high they go but if I remember correctly they go all the way up to 20 kHz (somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken). That's what gives you that classic "scream". So far as I know (again correct me if I'm mistaken) but I'm given to the impression that the later power wahs are more guitar oriented, and while having a notably wide sweep, I'm not certain whether or not their sweep is as wide as the old chrome wahs.

JanusZarate · #10 11-11-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Olson

So far as a I know, the boost doesn't play a role in Cliff Burton's sound, I'm pretty sure if he used the power wah boost he didn't use the boost on it; the boost on it is just a clean booster that is capable of providing a lot of signal boost, which can be used to push a tube amp or something, but I don't think it's going to give you any more "scream". In my experience that classic Cliff Burton "scream" is just part of the sound of the old vintage chrome wah series, though I don't have knowledge of their later power wahs to know if that scream from the vintage chrome wah got translated into the later incarnations of the pedal. What's unique about the old chrome wahs is that they were made for any instrument, and have a ridiculously large sweep, from 20 Hz to very high, I'm not sure how high they go but if I remember correctly they go all the way up to 20 kHz (somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken). That's what gives you that classic "scream". So far as I know (again correct me if I'm mistaken) but I'm given to the impression that the later power wahs are more guitar oriented, and while having a notably wide sweep, I'm not certain whether or not their sweep is as wide as the old chrome wahs.

The voicing has changed, but the sweep is still very broad (how broad, I'm not sure).

You're correct about the Boost knob - it's just a signal boost, but with a tube amp, you'll push the preamp into overdrive early.

Cliff may have used the Boost feature because the original chrome PWO had volume issues (or at least, the one I had did). It's also useful for solo moments when you need to be louder. The PWB had the advantage of a footswitchable boost, while the modern PWO does not.

Burton's "screaming" solos are a combination of fuzz and wah. Fuzz before wah, to be exact. Wah alone won't get that scream.

Jubey Monster · #11 11-11-2008, 02:16 AM

Aha! Cool, sounds like this new Morley PWO is the thing I need (would be a lot easier to aquire than an old PWB too). Thanks for the clarifications regarding boost guys.

bassforce · #12 11-11-2008, 02:17 AM

Also, remember to put your wah AFTER distortion.

kyral210 · #13 11-11-2008, 02:31 AM

Am I missing something? Didn't Cliff Burton use a Russian Made Big muff?

Jubey Monster · #14 11-11-2008, 05:11 AM

Yep, Cliff did use a big muff, I was originally posting about wahs, but that raises a good point. I've read in a lot of places that Cliff used a russian big muff, however, upon subsequent searching I did read somewhere that it is theoretically impossible for him to have owned a Sovtek one as they were not made until after his death. Note: I haven't tested the truth of this but I intend to at some point in the future. I have played on both the Russian and American Re-issues and I found I like the American better, although I think it's really up to personal taste.

Jubey Monster · #15 11-11-2008, 05:19 AM

Ah ok here is little info, note: this info is taken from http://www.digitalburn.org/the-mighty-big-muff-pi/

I quote, "The first Big Muff models went into production in 1971. Things were going alone nicely for the Big Muff until 1982 when Electro-Harmonix went out of business. Demand for the vintage Big Muff's went through the roof.

The Big Muff was used by a number of "alternative" bands in the early 90's, most notably the Smashing Pumpkins, so when Electro-Harmonix opened its doors again, the Big Muff was one of the first effects pedals to go back into production. Initially the re-issue Big Muff was made in Russia, and carried the Sovtek label. These Muffs were either housed in a green or black casing. I'd heard speculation that they were built from old tank parts, but I can't confirm that. Although I owned a black Sovtek Big Muff, and having opened it up, the tank parts rumor would not surprise me at all."

To me this implies that Cliff couldn't have used a Russian Big Muff, however I still wouldn't rule out the possibility. (I just had to include the bit about tank parts).

Mark Olson · #16 11-11-2008, 10:17 AM

I've heard that rumor about the tank parts. I guess it makes sense not having Russian Muffs during the Cold War and all.

Bassmingo · #17 11-11-2008, 11:32 AM

i have a green russian muff, and i'd well believe its built from tank parts! (except for the battery clip)

and while we're discussing cliffs sound, listen to this...yes its really him..

Battery Bass

JanusZarate · #18 11-11-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyral210

Am I missing something? Didn't Cliff Burton use a Russian Made Big muff?

Nope. Mike Matthews didn't start production of any Sovtek/Russian pedals until long after Cliff's death, in the early 1990s. I've posted quite a bit about it before, as have others...

Jubey Monster · #19 11-11-2008, 02:27 PM

After rummaging through my collection of Cliff solo clips I found a few that employed some effects other than distortion and wah. It would appear that he also experimented with delay, as well as a kind of tremolo sort of effect although I can;t really place it.

Bassmingo · #20 11-11-2008, 02:58 PM

The only effects cliff ever used were wah, fuzz, delay (damage inc intro) leslie (orion intro) and i remember having a live bootleg from 85 which i'm sure he also used some kind of octave splitter on bells.