Compressor - cheating vs desired effect

[InternetAlias]

I've been struggling whether to use or not to use a compressor. I don't want to use it to cheat, that is, even out my sloppy playing, but I have to use it because I use a lot of different techniques that involve huge volume changes, like heavily clanging the bass vs plucking softly near the neck. The idea here is to get an almost dubbish tone by plucking on the neck and to get a really present, highmiddy tone by clanging the strings against fretboard.

HOWEVER, if I want those deep dubby notes to be loud enough, my clanging will be too loud (specially in bass range). The only obvious answer would be a compressor, and I know this question will sound incredibly stupid, but is it possible to use a compressor without cheating, while it does what I need it to do? The main problem is the low end, I want the low end to be consistent, but in doing so, I'd hide my sloppy playing as well, so I am still thinking whether or not this is ok.

If none of this made sense to you, I apologize.

[superbassman2000]

Why would using a compressor be cheating?

A compressor won't cover up sloppy playing at all...in fact, it'd probably put it in the spotlight

[InternetAlias]

Originally Posted by superbassman2000

Why would using a compressor be cheating?

A compressor won't cover up sloppy playing at all...in fact, it'd probably put it in the spotlight

I have produced metal and I know how to even out sloppy bass playing mine or otherwise, that's the kind of issue I am facing here. However, how would you dial a compressor to emphasize sloppy playing?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by InternetAlias

I have produced metal and I know how to even out sloppy bass playing mine or otherwise, that's the kind of issue I am facing here. However, how would you dial a compressor to emphasize sloppy playing?

Compressors can make your notes pop out a bit/sound more emphasized, so it can be easier to hear sloppiness in your playing.

Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of compressors. Maybe I just don't know how to use them properly, or perhaps I haven't found the right one for me.

[tsverrir]

A quality compressor can also be used to shape your tone. It's not cheating any more than running your bass through a bass amp or effect devices.

[RedMoses]

The comp is not going to "Cheat" your sound as much as you think but it will surely help round things out and help get your DUbby tone. More important than the Comp for the Dub tone if a pre amp or two, i found an active Bass works well with the highs cut and the bass boosted, run that already Phat Subby signal into a preamp pedal and then a comp and you will have a HUGE Phat tone, you may not hear much defeinition it but you will def feel it.

[eriky4003]

Not sure what sloppy playing would be. You're doing what needs to be done to get the job done, no matter technique.
A compressor will level out the extremes in volume and if used properly may help thicken your sound. After playing with my current compressor and then playing without, I noticed some notes boom louder through my rig and slapping was also that much louder. The compressor evens out the booms and brings the volume of slapping under control. The soundguys probably really appreciate it and it's nice to have the even volume despite different styles. Not sure if using a compressor should be considered 'cheating'.

[M Sterling]

Try setting the compressor with a low threshold and low ratio. This make the comp react to most of your playing, but the low ratio will only squash the signal a little bit. This should allow you to turn your overall signal up to bring out the dubby notes, while still keeping the clangy ones in check. Also read here:

www.ovnilab.com

A compressor is just another tool. You can decide if you need it or not, but it's no more cheating than a carpenter deciding to use a particular tool to get the job done. The goal is the end result, regardless of what you use to get there.

[MCS4]

I wouldn't worry about "cheating," but I'm also not certain that compression will give you what you want. Compression can even out dynamics caused by minor variation in your playing (i.e. smoothing out note volume and reducing peaks), but IMHO most compressors are not great at dealing with wide dynamics in your actual playing style. The reason for this, from my experience, is that a good compressor setting for one style (say, busy, clangy hard picking) often will not work well for a different style (like fingerstyle dub tone).

Personally, I use only a minimal amount of compression, primarily to reduce peaks. This is because I too like to play a wide variety of styles but cannot find a compressor or setting that sounds good on the majority of them. Every time I try to use compression more seriously, I end up finding a setting that works well for my typical fingerstyle playing, but it inevitably ends up making upper-register playing sound too fat and "not-string-like" and squashing my distorted tones.

That being said, it's also possible that you may find a compressor pedal that you like to kick on when playing one style or another, rather than using it "always on."

[Jared Lash]

I think a compressor can be a wonderful tool and you may well benefit from having one in your signal chain.

To me this is a bigger difference in volume/dynamics than switching between fingerstyle and slap or picking because that great dubby sound is all about soft plucks with the amp turned up loud for massive round tones while the Entwistle-like percussive style is all about hitting the strings hard and bouncing them off the fretboard.

That said, for the particular circumstances you're describing I think you might be better served with a simple clean boost. Maybe something like the MXR Micro Amp.

I think a compressor would have to bet set rather high to even out the volume levels between the two techniques which might mean an extreme squashing but a Micro Amp could just be set to boost your gain for dubby parts and clicked off during more aggressive playing.

Just my $0.02

[LozzieG74]

Originally Posted by M Sterling

A compressor is just another tool. You can decide if you need it or not, but it's no more cheating than a carpenter deciding to use a particular tool to get the job done. The goal is the end result, regardless of what you use to get there.

+1 on this, using a compressor is no different to any other effect or preamp etc. If it works for you, then it's not cheating, sloppy playing or not!!

[MCS4]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

I think a compressor can be a wonderful tool and you may well benefit from having one in your signal chain.

To me this is a bigger difference in volume/dynamics than switching between fingerstyle and slap or picking because that great dubby sound is all about soft plucks with the amp turned up loud for massive round tones while the Entwistle-like percussive style is all about hitting the strings hard and bouncing them off the fretboard.

That said, for the particular circumstances you're describing I think you might be better served with a simple clean boost. Maybe something like the MXR Micro Amp.

I think a compressor would have to bet set rather high to even out the volume levels between the two techniques but a Micro Amp could just be set to boost your gain for dubby parts and clicked off during more aggressive playing.

Just my $0.02

I agree with this. Another option would be an EQ or preamp pedal that could be used both to boost/cut volume and modify your base tone to even out the overall sound between styles. A slight volume and bass boost with a treble cut could be just the thing.

[InternetAlias]

I asked a local guitar luthier if he could make me a switch that does that sort of thing, he told me he can wire a preamp with a desired boost, resistance and capacitor that could get this tone when engaged. Basically, it'd work like a switch to roll off highs (tone knob fully off) and a switch for desired boost (he says I can set it between 3 and 20db). So, would that be a good idea? Basically, those switches would be just one next to another, and I could switch the tone from clangy to dubby with a simple hand movement, plus I always thought I should install a preamp here. Any downsides to this? I have no problem with batteries.

[HolmeBass]

"Cheating" is a non-starter. If it sounds good, it is good. Heck, at least your playing, instead of triggering a sample.

The clean boost sounds like a way to go, OR a dedicated low pass filter for the dubby parts. I might try all 3: clean boost, LP filter, and a mildly set compressor. Don't worry about cheating though, simply not worth another second of your effort.

[superbassman2000]

Originally Posted by InternetAlias

I have produced metal and I know how to even out sloppy bass playing mine or otherwise, that's the kind of issue I am facing here. However, how would you dial a compressor to emphasize sloppy playing?

I find that hard to believe. Maybe I just don't know what you mean by "sloppy". I was thinking in terms of timing, rhythm, and hitting the wrong notes. If you mean sloppy as in an inconsistent volume, then I could see a compressor leveling that off.
I would think a compressor would be a better choice than a volume boost because the comp will keep an even volume the whole way through. You won't screw with the mix

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by InternetAlias

I asked a local guitar luthier if he could make me a switch that does that sort of thing, he told me he can wire a preamp with a desired boost, resistance and capacitor that could get this tone when engaged. Basically, it'd work like a switch to roll off highs (tone knob fully off) and a switch for desired boost

Again, i think you just need a eq pedal or something similar that you hit when you want to change from one style of playing to another. I dont think you need a luthier to build a special fancy preamp or anything.

It sounds like a compressor runnin same settings ..to achieve two totally different sounds/playin styles...is the last thing you need.

furthermore..i dont consider it cheating either..and i dont own one..yet.

[MCS4]

Originally Posted by InternetAlias

I asked a local guitar luthier if he could make me a switch that does that sort of thing, he told me he can wire a preamp with a desired boost, resistance and capacitor that could get this tone when engaged. Basically, it'd work like a switch to roll off highs (tone knob fully off) and a switch for desired boost (he says I can set it between 3 and 20db). So, would that be a good idea? Basically, those switches would be just one next to another, and I could switch the tone from clangy to dubby with a simple hand movement, plus I always thought I should install a preamp here. Any downsides to this? I have no problem with batteries.

Sounds like a fun project, but my vote would be to wait for something like that until you've put in a long time figuring out the precise settings you want (e.g., that sounds like the sort of thing a seasoned pro would want in order to precisely replicate their favorite, long-used tone).

You can get similar results from a decent EQ or preamp pedal, which would have the added benefits of (1) being easily configurable, if you decide you want more/less tone rolloff or volume; and (2) being activated by your foot. If you do ultimately add a preamp to your bass, that will only further give you options for tweaking EQ and volume.

[Jared Lash]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

The clean boost sounds like a way to go, OR a dedicated low pass filter for the dubby parts. I might try all 3: clean boost, LP filter, and a mildly set compressor. Don't worry about cheating though, simply not worth another second of your effort.

Also true. I didn't realize you wanted additional EQ'ing when you switched between the two styles. An Iron Ether Xerograph could work well. Set the cutoff to cut your highs (and possibly mids) to taste, maybe roll in a bit of clean for balance and set the filter volume well above unity to boost your volume when you switch to "dub mode"

I do know that Stu Brooks used to use the Aguilar AG 500 for exactly what you're describing. One channel was set for dub tone and the other was set for a hard rock tone with the distortion circuit engaged. Using a footswitch to change channels he'd have both sounds at his feet.

[InternetAlias]

Originally Posted by superbassman2000

I find that hard to believe. Maybe I just don't know what you mean by "sloppy". I was thinking in terms of timing, rhythm, and hitting the wrong notes. If you mean sloppy as in an inconsistent volume, then I could see a compressor leveling that off.
I would think a compressor would be a better choice than a volume boost because the comp will keep an even volume the whole way through. You won't screw with the mix

Haha, I really meant the volume difference, so yeah. It is sloppy as in 'uneaven'. Seems I have got a solution after all...

Well, basically, I didn't think about EQ much because I can get a very different tone by just moving my right hand closer to the neck and playing softer. So really, I don't necessarily need an EQ (lowpass in this case) but it might be very useful.

@MCS4: Actually, I know exactly what kind of a tone that would be, basically a .047u capacitor fully engaged, that is, with no resistance. Is it better to wire it before or after the preamp?

So I get a preamp I can have an X db boost on to even the volume with my clanging, get an instant switch for the dubby tone (I don't want to turn the tone knob all the time) and I already have a compressor/limiter pedal to tame the peaks. Well, that sounds about the best solution Also, I prefer to have electronics in my bass, way more than under me feet, I just don't like looking around and carrying pedals too much.

[mbelue]

InternetAlias: I understand you fine.
You are talking about three finger/four finger technique at high speed? No compressor equals inconstant tone and volume. Compressors help with that. There is some elitism involving this, folks saying "your technique sucks." There may be some truth in that, but its also dependent on how much gain you use and if your signal is already clipped by some overdrive/distortion. Or if your amp has a forgiving input (tube) which is already adding some compression.
I notice this the most trying to use a very clean tone for fast fingerstyle.
The best advice I can give would be to practice both with compressor and without. Going back and forth till you hear little difference. I do this when practicing string skipping trying to increase my speed.