Compressor stealling my low end tone?

bakeronbass · #1 03-24-2008, 11:58 PM

Hey what the hell.

I need some help I've read everything I can find on talk bass and elsewhere. Alot of it very help full thanks Bongo.
I've had this compressor and have liked it and experimented with different settings, but up till recently I have only been in a small rehersal space with one cab in play. Now different band large studio space full rig. I just dont have the big booming bottom when I have the compressor on even with bass EQ up and or contour button in. When I hit bypass big brialliant bottom end returns. I tried various settings all knobs straight up over easy and all I get is varying levels of squashing my balls so to speak. Currently I'am running both unbalanced outs1/4 of the pre amp to each side of the compressor then both out of compressor to power amp. I have run the compressor in the effects loop of the pre before and then send the pre out to the power amp, but I didnt notice any difference.
So yeah just to clarify all knobs straight up overeasy on the gain reduction lights not even coming on and the tone is weak in lows.
I hit bypass and all the bottom comes back. atleas seams to.
I did by this unit off ebay mabye its bunk.
So my Rig is a Swr grand Prix
DBX 166xl
tapco power amp
eden 2x10 and a 1x15.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.
Cheers

bongomania · #2 03-25-2008, 12:32 AM

If the contour button isn't allowing big booming bass through, then the unit may be faulty (out of spec), especially if you're not even seeing any action on the GR meter lights.

It's sort of normal with many compressors to "lose" strength and boominess in the lows, as that boominess is due to having huge amplitude spikes in the low frequencies, and a compressor levels those spikes off. The benefit side of that is your mids and highs can come through more clearly, which is very beneficial in a band mix.

That said, it sounds from your description like this unit is going overboard with the low end loss, which sounds faulty to me.

ConspiracyBass · #3 03-25-2008, 12:51 AM

You really need a multiband compressor. I like my Digitech pedal, but I know there are some better rackmount ones out there.

And if you don't know, a multiband allows you compress certain frequencies as opposed to all of em. Plus you'll be able to boost the frequencies your compressing. This is ideal for helping tame the B string or to just maintain a consistent low end level. I can't ever imagine using a normal compressor. Its just not ideal for bass.

improvpwnd · #4 03-25-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConspiracyBass

You really need a multiband compressor. I like my Digitech pedal, but I know there are some better rackmount ones out there.

And if you don't know, a multiband allows you compress certain frequencies as opposed to all of em. Plus you'll be able to boost the frequencies your compressing. This is ideal for helping tame the B string or to just maintain a consistent low end level. I can't ever imagine using a normal compressor. Its just not ideal for bass.

Which multiband do you use?

ConspiracyBass · #5 03-25-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Which multiband do you use?

http://www.digitech.com/products/BassSqueeze.htm

Its a great little box that does its job very well. I was surprised when I tried it out.

Fuzzbass · #6 03-25-2008, 07:59 AM

For now, you can try reducing the amount of compression. A compressor shouldn't "squash" your tone (unless that's what you want it to do).

My suggestions:
1) Reduce the Ratio control to 3:1 or less, and/or...
2) raise Threshold so that compression occurs only on peaks

It's been awhile since I've worked with attack and release, but you might also want to shorten the release time.

bakeronbass · #7 03-25-2008, 11:07 AM

Thanks for the advice. Everyone
I have tried to give it the easiest/Tame settings but the problem is still there.

I may try to put an EQ into the sidechain before I part ways with this unit to see if that helps.

I'll look at the multi band units.
Thanks Again

improvpwnd · #8 03-26-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConspiracyBass

http://www.digitech.com/products/BassSqueeze.htm

Its a great little box that does its job very well. I was surprised when I tried it out.

Oh, when I was thinking 'multi-band' I was thinking of 'more than two-band,' but that's better than an 'all-in-one!' Anyone use 'many-multi-band' outboard compressors?

David1234 · #9 03-26-2008, 02:14 AM

What's your whole signal chain? Do you have a bass boost on your instrument as well as maybe one in the preamp's EQ? I think that you might be happier if any bass boost came after the compression, cause if you boost beforehand then the compressor is seeing those big notes as threateningly loud and so it's turning them down (ie it's behaving corectly).

In addition to Fuzzbass's excellent suggestions, also see if you can select a much faster release on your compressor, so that if it's sqashing a peak it doesn't also follow the next half-second of music as well.

ConspiracyBass · #10 03-26-2008, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Oh, when I was thinking 'multi-band' I was thinking of 'more than two-band,' but that's better than an 'all-in-one!' Anyone use 'many-multi-band' outboard compressors?

Its A LOT better than just a normal compressor. It doesn't give you a ton of control, but the crossover and the 2 band boost does work very well. You can get tame compression or brickwall. Its pretty cool.

David1234 · #11 03-26-2008, 02:29 AM

oops. something else to check - could there be a phase reversal in one compressor channel and not the other? .... hmm but you said you've tried it mono (like on channel in the FX loop) and still had the problem. I'll be curious to see how this works out.

improvpwnd · #12 03-26-2008, 03:00 AM

I am really starting to think this is a defective product. I have been playing with my 166xl and though it does cut low end (as any compressor would) it is not as bad as you are describing...and with the contour button depressed, the bottom end becomes very present. I don't like massive boomy lows though..

bassman251 · #13 03-26-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakeronbass

Hey what the hell.

I need some help I've read everything I can find on talk bass and elsewhere. Alot of it very help full thanks Bongo.
I've had this compressor and have liked it and experimented with different settings, but up till recently I have only been in a small rehersal space with one cab in play. Now different band large studio space full rig. I just dont have the big booming bottom when I have the compressor on even with bass EQ up and or contour button in. When I hit bypass big brialliant bottom end returns. I tried various settings all knobs straight up over easy and all I get is varying levels of squashing my balls so to speak. Currently I'am running both unbalanced outs1/4 of the pre amp to each side of the compressor then both out of compressor to power amp. I have run thecompressor in the effects loop of the pre before and then send the pre out to the power amp, but I didnt notice any difference.
So yeah just to clarify all knobs straight up overeasy on the gain reduction lights not even coming on and the tone is weak in lows.
I hit bypass and all the bottom comes back. atleas seams to.
I did by this unit off ebay mabye its bunk.
So my Rig is a Swr grand Prix
DBX 166xl
tapco power amp
eden 2x10 and a 1x15.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.
Cheers

To just control just the peaks.......I set it to hard knee ( Easyover push button is out not in/ light is not lit ) With it pushed in it sounds to me it has more compression.....

Threshold & Output knobs set to zero.

Ratio set to 4:1

Attack 9 o'clock

Release 10 o'clock

Limiter 0

These are the settings recommended by DBX for most rock & jazz settings......

Of course all adjustments are different for different people on what they like.

For some reason the reduction lights won't come on unless you use the gate function, well at least for me as I'm still a bit new to my DBX 166XL

Try those settings & see if that works.

Oh, have no problems with low end loss by the way.

EDIT: Ok tried to replicate all your settings the way you describe....ALL knobs straight up overeasy on, yes, it does squash your settings quite a bit, especially when hitting the E string.

bongomania · #14 03-26-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Oh, when I was thinking 'multi-band' I was thinking of 'more than two-band,' but that's better than an 'all-in-one!' Anyone use 'many-multi-band' outboard compressors?

Phase issues become extremely difficult to avoid/manage when you have multiple bands. There are some "in the box" software plugins that seem to do the job OK from what I've read, but in the hardware world more than two bands is not a successful format.

And the Digitech pedal is one of the worst options out there IMO.

improvpwnd · #15 03-27-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Phase issues become extremely difficult to avoid/manage when you have multiple bands. There are some "in the box" software plugins that seem to do the job OK from what I've read, but in the hardware world more than two bands is not a successful format.

And the Digitech pedal is one of the worst options out there IMO.

Hmmm..good info. Nuendo's multi-band compressor plug is very good, IMO.