Compressors On Bass

[810wmb]

ok, my worship leader seems to think that a compressor on my bass rig will help in the house.

i'm running a mesa 400+, mesa 115 & 210 - loud but not bone crushing.

the problem is the house - our sanctuary is bass heavy. feedback through the acoustic some (i gave the guy my feedbackbuster) kick drum is loud, the drums are loud in general, i'm next to a b3 that is humming pretty good too!

the good thing - nobody is coming off heavy handed - i'm willing to do whatever.

we are going to drop the drum volume this week. i am moving my rig away from the b3.

these alone might help.

but..the worship leader is convinced a compressor will help. the only time i have played through one was on my swr bass350. i hated it.

so any suggestions?


i'm not going to ask the church to pay for it, so if one is needed, i want a stomp box.

[James Hart]

I don't think it'll do what you are looking for it to do. Try lifting your cabs up off the stage. The boom is most likely a combo of the B3 and yourself. Try cutting your lows and boosting the high mids. It'll sound bad soloed, but should suit the mix great.

You should get the organist to throttle back on the lows as well.

I'd recommend the Maxon CP-9 pro+ (I use and love one) for a high quality 'leave it on' type of compressor.

[René_Julien]

I'm a huge fan of compressor on bass.
But I don't think a compressor is going to help your problem.

You're playing an all-tube amp... IMO a compressor isn't really necessary unless you want to use it as an effect.

I know nothing about playing in a church, but wow: a Mesa 400+.

How about you try playing with only the 2x10 cab?

That's what I would try first.
Sometimes less is more.

[810wmb]

heheheh...like i said, not bone crushing loud...i mean a vette will do 6mph if you don't mash it to the floor!

i know about coupling - the 115 has the casters on, so it's not fully connected to the stage.

myself, i don't see it either, but like i said, i'm willing to try, if for no other reason, to count it out if it doesn't work.

they are talking about some foam crap in a "lip" that sticks out around the roof to suck up some bass.

[Jim C]

+1 although I think there are some inexpensive compressors that will help get the job done; a used dbx 163 or MXR for $50 would be fine

I've probably recorded 50 gospel albums with the Big Mo 24 track remote truck; here's what worked for us:
* Plexiglass partitions around the drums; always
* Put the bass, drums, and guitar close together for vibe and volume control
* Move the choir away from but facing the loud instruments (so mics would be pointed away from the band)
* Raise bass or organ cabs off of any hollow stage; prefer the drums on a concrete or hardwood floor
* Wrap the piano with quilts to try and attenuate the band
* Most importantly, beg the band no to play loud and explain the issues at hand; I'd always say something like - do whatever you want but this CD will last forever and if you play loud the recording will suffer; I can't change the laws of physics but we will do the best we can to make your recording as clean and clear as possible; we ask you to do the same; play your best but don't play too loud

Or play loud and accept that fact that the mud is part of the deal; not always the best way to get or keep good gigs though

[ksandvik]

Personally I think compressors are for those who use certain techniques that require compression, as well as for keeping an even level sound similar to recordings. However, a bass player could live happily without a compressor, that's for sure. I use one.

[810wmb]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Personally I think compressors are for those who use certain techniques that require compression, as well as for keeping an even level sound similar to recordings. However, a bass player could live happily without a compressor, that's for sure. I use one.

i play fingerstyle, no slap, a couple of "rock" type songs, a couple of slower, "whole note" tunes.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

However, a bass player could live happily without a compressor, that's for sure. I use one.

This needs to be revised.
Make that:

Most bassists could live without a compressor, several can't live without one.


I am one of the latter.
Ever since I learned more about compression, had a few, learned to dial it in so it benefits me... I don't want to play without one.

And I consider myself a technical player. (A crappy technical player... but still technical. )

Every dynamic of technique shift is heard with me. Fingernails versus fingerflesh plucking, playing near the neck versus near the bridge,...


But each must do what works best for them.



edit: I misread the post, I thought you were a non-compressor user. nvm
this post is going to the redundancy department of redundancy.

[Lazylion]

I never use a compressor. They tend to make me beat my plucking fingers to death.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by 810wmb

heheheh...like i said, not bone crushing loud...i mean a vette will do 6mph if you don't mash it to the floor!

i know about coupling - the 115 has the casters on, so it's not fully connected to the stage.

myself, i don't see it either, but like i said, i'm willing to try, if for no other reason, to count it out if it doesn't work.

they are talking about some foam crap in a "lip" that sticks out around the roof to suck up some bass.

Maybe if you use just one cab then you will be pushing your amp more... to a certains spot where natural compression occurs from the tubes.

Also, 2x10 + 1x15... phasing issues can occur.
Your problem is in the venue acoustics.

[Zooberwerx]

What do you mean by "the sanctuary is bass heavy"? If we're talking "boom", that can be better addressed by adding a parametric EQ and dialing out the offending frequencies. That's what they're made for. You could probably pinpoint the aforementioned acoustic feedback and whack it, also. A decent graphic EQ may work also; I just like being able to do a full-blown sweep while listening for the nasties.

Riis

[James Hart]

Originally Posted by Lazylion

I never use a compressor. They tend to make me beat my plucking fingers to death.

That would be because they weren't dialed in right or it were defective or the wrong type entirely.

[810wmb]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

What do you mean by "the sanctuary is bass heavy"? If we're talking "boom", that can be better addressed by adding a parametric EQ and dialing out the offending frequencies. That's what they're made for. You could probably pinpoint the aforementioned acoustic feedback and whack it, also. A decent graphic EQ may work also; I just like being able to do a full-blown sweep while listening for the nasties.

Riis

yep, boom - the worship leader's nephew(knows his stuff) dialed out a *touch*of boom on the graphic of my 400+ - that time it ended up being the kick drum. it really wasn't enough to affect anything except me. i'm not saying that is bad, it just needs to be in combination with the other instruments.

it's everything combined, i believe - but when you are out there or onstage and hear boom, you know who they are looking at

[LM Bass]

In the Gospel Choir (Good Noise Vancouver) that I play in, the drummer and I make a real point of always being able to hear the singers. For us, it was just a matter of thinking like orchestral musicians instead of putting our "band guy" hats on. Sometimes it means ppp volume levels, especially on hi-hat and cymbals. My amp is usually on "2" at the most. I am so lucky to work with a drummer that can do that, and still make it groove like crazy!

[bassman1185]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of "it's the room acoustics; compression won't help." It's the soundman's job to clean up the mix. Ask him to cut some bass from your channel, and possibly from the kick drum and B3 as well. If you are sending a DI signal, make sure it is pre-EQ. If your cabs are miced, make sure it's one of the 10s and not the 15. Also, if you are using a mic, try some different placements to see if you can optimize the tone.

[ga_edwards]

Originally Posted by bassman1185

I'll add my voice to the chorus of "it's the room acoustics; compression won't help." It's the soundman's job to clean up the mix. Ask him to cut some bass from your channel, and possibly from the kick drum and B3 as well. If you are sending a DI signal, make sure it is pre-EQ. If your cabs are miced, make sure it's one of the 10s and not the 15. Also, if you are using a mic, try some different placements to see if you can optimize the tone.

Absolutely +1 on all this good advice.

Worship, gospel, rock, metal or even ska. The same principles apply. The low register is yours, the sound guy, and the users of the backline need to adjust their eq so they don't clash with you. If they are encroaching on your frequencies, the instinctive thing to so it turn you up. Thus creating boom. It's always better to cut frequencies than boost them.

I would advise starting off a soundcheck with just you and the drums. get those mixed nicely together first, especially those important frequencies of the kick drum, make sure you don't clash. Remember, the bass and drums form the foundation of the mix.

Then bring in the organ, guitars etc to fit around you. Guitarists are notorious for having too much low end in their signal. Many of them seem to think the full, rich sound they have playing on their own at home is perfect, not realising they need to all but completely roll of the bass knob to fit in a mix properly. The same goes for keyboards. They can create incredible amounts of low end that needs to be cut right back.

Also, castors alone may not be enough to reduce the coupling effect. You may still want to try putting the amp on a crate, or tilting it back somewhat. The other problem may also be the choice of a single 1x15. These are naturally low-mid biased, and tricky to dial in a cutting mid range tone. Perhaps a 12 or a 2x10 may sit better in such a boomy room.

[walker rosewood]

+1 on casters still coupling. I was just reading this thread about the auralex Gramma, and just saw them at GC.

Auralex Gramma: Worth the money, or worthless?

[bongomania]

Even as a compression fiend, I 100% agree with the recommendation of a parametric EQ as the real solution you need (or at least one of the solutions, as it may take several things in combination, like the Gramma and repositioning the instruments etc.). A compressor will not help here.