Converting a bass to be MIDI compatible.

[snogaws]

I am thinking of converting my Modulus Q6 TBX bass into a MIDI compatible instrument. I was wondering what the best way to do this would be. I used to have a Roland GK-3B attached, but the tracking wasn't anything to brag about due to the pickup having to be fairly far away from the bridge.

So, what would be the best way for me to make my bass into a MIDI bass, with good tracking, etc? I'm mostly looking for alternatives other than the Roland GK-3B route.

[chokeslam512]

This post intrigues me... I have a few basses that aren't getting the play they could and might as well be MIDI.

[fokof]

Bass to MIDI is a nightmare , tracking is very bad and latency for bass is un-playable. I tried a GI20 and Axon before they went out of buisness , both were un-reliable.

The only thing that I think can work is this . I haven't tried one but from what I read.
Mucho $$$$

If you absolutly need Pitch to MIDI : take a dedicated bass , fit a GK3 pickup perfectly , get a Roland GI20 and use Piccolo strings. One octave higher helps the Latency.But the bad thing is that you won't have a good 'normal' bass sound , will work for Pitch to MIDI only. There will still be a lot of glitches (bad tracking) , but it was the way to get something (far from ideal) , also by using Soft Samplers instead of Soft synth , helps.


I really tried everything and the best compromise for various synth sounds without latency and that has perfect tracking is the VB99. The big advantage is that it does not rely on MIDI or some sort of Pitch to MIDI (like a GR55 is) , and there is enough type of synth sounds to fill my needs. The different bass emulations are very good and there is all the FX in the world.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by snogaws

I'm mostly looking for alternatives other than the Roland GK-3B route.

I retrofitted 2 of my basses with piezo saddle from Graph-tech and uses their "Hexpander" for Roland's GK standard (13 pin cable)
Makes for a very clean job on top of the bass but you have to put the 13pin jack on the bass somehow. If you are lucky , it can fit in the output section of your bass without much 'wood chopping'

Bridge

electronics

I made a thread back on the Carvin forum when I did the job if it can help (photos) : Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - Anybody added an Hexpander to his/her bass ?

[Colonel Monk]

Originally Posted by snogaws

I am thinking of converting my Modulus Q6 TBX bass into a MIDI compatible instrument. I was wondering what the best way to do this would be. I used to have a Roland GK-3B attached, but the tracking wasn't anything to brag about due to the pickup having to be fairly far away from the bridge.

So, what would be the best way for me to make my bass into a MIDI bass, with good tracking, etc? I'm mostly looking for alternatives other than the Roland GK-3B route.

As you mentioned, the installation instructions for GK-3B state that there is a max distance from bridge to CL of the pickup, if you violate that I wouldn't expect it to perform. You might consider trying again and following these instructions to the letter.

Yeah it's a drag that there's so few alternatives.

As far as I know the GK-3B and GI-20 or VG-99 ARE the best way. 'Cept maybe this industrial radio bass....

I think you also need to have realistic goals in mind. I think the more skilled the bass player the more disappointed they are with MIDI bass given the latency because they want to play fast runs that the controller cannot track. This is just the way it is.

More deliberate playing will result in better tracking. There's a guy here who is using sonuus B2M that others have said is terrible and he's quite happy with it playing synth bass lines. That said, he's probably NOT trying to play lead guitar thru midi bass either....

[Nimu]

hi,

the last two years i used a setup to track my bass (fender jazz) and triggered midi instruments. therefor i used a nice little quad-core pc where i run ableton live. in the ableton live project i had all my instruments (vst) on different tracks. i did engage the tracks using a behringer fcb 1010 midi-footcontroller. the tracking was done by a cheap software called ts audio 2 midi. depending on the power of the pc and the soundcard (i use a rme fireface) the latency is quite good (about 5ms). the software also tracks chords quite well.

i tried the 90s peavy midibass aswell to some others and i must say that my solution had the best response to my playing. the downside was that i had to carry a pc (with a mini display), footcontroller,... and the software does not recognize pitchbend. but for me it did work out very well. i played everything from weird synths to hammond, strings, choirs.

its a pity that the band where i was able to use this sophisticated setup doesen´t do any gigs now.

if you have any questions regarding my setup feel free to ask me.

have a nice day!

here is a video with my setup: Audio to Midi Bass Setup - YouTube

[fokof]

Originally Posted by Nimu

......the tracking was done by a cheap software called ts audio 2 midi. depending on the power of the pc and the soundcard (i use a rme fireface) the latency is quite good (about 5ms). the software also tracks chords quite well.

With that setup , can you take a Minimoog sound with a strong attack out of a softsynth and play a tight , groovy song in the lower register of the neck without too much glitches or latency ?

[Nimu]

Originally Posted by fokof

With that setup , can you take a Minimoog sound with a strong attack out of a softsynth and play a tight , groovy song in the lower register of the neck without too much glitches or latency ?

i don´t think so. i never used the synth sounds alone. i always combined to bass sound with the synth sounds. this way the latency was not such a big issue.

for playing a tight moog sound it would definetly be the best to .... well play a moog

[lowfreq33]

Phil Lesh had a Modulus with a pitch to midi setup on it, I believe each fret was wired in addition to some sort of sensor to determine which string(s) were being plucked. Between the two it determined what notes to trigger.

[Nimu]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Phil Lesh had a Modulus with a pitch to midi setup on it, I believe each fret was wired in addition to some sort of sensor to determine which string(s) were being plucked. Between the two it determined what notes to trigger.

thats the same system used since the late 80s. every fret is wired. in combination there is a quad-pickup which delivers a signal for each string. so the electronic can decide which tone to play and how loud. i saw it the first time being played by t.m. stevens on tour with joe cocker. i met him once and talked about the bass. he told me that it did take quite an efford to setup and finetune the thing but then it worked out quite well. he was able to play fast lines without noticable latency. the bass was called Peavey Midi Cyber Bass.

[greencow]

A bit of topic but...

Kitara | What it is

It runs on Linux!

[gastric]

Originally Posted by fokof

With that setup , can you take a Minimoog sound with a strong attack out of a softsynth and play a tight , groovy song in the lower register of the neck without too much glitches or latency ?

That's the ultimate test for any of this bass-to-synth stuff. Pretty much any of it, including audio-to-MIDI VST and the SONUUS can correctly handle slow-attack pads against slow playing without any serious issues. It's when you're trying to play quick, fast-attack bass lines that hit the wall.

I have a ton of synth effect clips and reviews on my pages. Check my signature below. Outside of dedicated FX pedals, which often perform great (Korg G5) but are seriously limited in sounds, the Roland GR-55 comes the closest to usable performance. And overall it really isn't that expensive when you look at the big picture of maybe needing to buy 2-3 synth FX pedals and all the other stuff you'd want (chorus, delay, verb, etc.).

[Jonesy4fnk]

My MIDI bass tracks great! Its a 6 string bass, the B string is the only iffy string for tracking.

I use the RMC Pow'rBass WLK Piezo pickups, with the Polydrive 1-B.
RMC Pickups


That is connected to the Axon SB-101 MIDI Converter, which is connected to my sound module.

I've never had a problem with latency.

[gastric]

Originally Posted by Jonesy4fnk

My MIDI bass tracks great! Its a 6 string bass, the B string is the only iffy string for tracking.

I use the RMC Pow'rBass WLK Piezo pickups, with the Polydrive 1-B.
RMC Pickups


That is connected to the Axon SB-101 MIDI Converter, which is connected to my sound module.

I've never had a problem with latency.

I challenge you to prove it with some sound clips. Seriously, we're a musician community TALKING about stuff but rarely sharing any audible music clips. Never makes any sense to me.

Related, I added a quick live GR-55 clip to my GR-55 page. Toggle through two patches, switch in some overdrive, you get to hear my intermediate skill level playing. All sorts of wonderful stuff!

[Jonesy4fnk]

I guess we all need to overlook the whole "talk" part of Talkbass.com then

I'll see if I can find time to upload some audio.

[gastric]

Originally Posted by Jonesy4fnk

I guess we all need to overlook the whole "talk" part of Talkbass.com then

I'll see if I can find time to upload some audio.

Talk is good. Sound clips are 100x better. You don't have to compose a hit song and spend three weeks recording it to showcase some effect sounds. Just whip up some quickie clips. If you're worried about people laughing at your playing - I'm totally mediocre and nobody's laughed at me... at least that I've noticed. Haha.

[Jonesy4fnk]

Here's a rough youtube video where I'm using my MIDI sound for the "dub" bass line...pretty simple but effective.

Telesma with Alex and Allyson Grey - Winter Solstice Visionary Gathering - YouTube

[Stefmeister]

sonuus - Music Products Designed in the UK this maybe?

[fokof]

Originally Posted by Jonesy4fnk

That is connected to the Axon SB-101 MIDI Converter, which is connected to my sound module.

I've never had a problem with latency.

I'm very very curious too.

When I tried an Ax100 , I found the latency in the lower part of the neck un-playable. I ended up buying the GI20 wich had better tracking with bass IMHO (guitar players might think otherwise) Sold the GI20 since then.
I did some test back then and the latency of an Open lowB was 29ms.
It is OK to play pads , slow notes , non-groovy , slow attack stuff , but a Minimoog sound with a strong attack over a click track ?

[gumtownbassman]

I will add my 2c worth,
I use a GR-55 with two five string basses, If you want midi/PCM synth tones only, you will be dissapointed with latency. There is no way around it or any way to improve it, just the laws of physics will dictate a low B at 32Hz and a pitch to midi system which requires 2 cycles to analyze to frequency will equate to a very large latency.
I get around this by combining either or both of the bass normal pickup tone and the HRM modeling tones to disguise the missing few milliseconds of attack on the tone.
PCM/midi synth tones as mentioned above are good for slow rising pads and synths, but not so on stuccatto type playing and fast riffs.
The HRM modeling found in the GR-55, and twice that found in the VB-99 might be the answer if you want synthy type tones with no latency.