crazy custom pedal idea....

JohnDavisNYC · #1 02-17-2008, 06:27 PM

i had an idea for a pedal i want... i know that some pedal builders hang out here.

i want a standalone envelope follower that doesn't affect the sound, just creates CV voltage of the envelope... that way, i could put the 'detector box' first thing in my fx chain, and use the CV to control my moog low pass pedal further down the chain, but have my dynamics of an unprocessed signal... so...

bass > tuner > detector box > octave > woolly mammoth > moog lpf (controlled by envelope from detector box)...

that way i could get nice dynamic envelope following on a really heavily processed and un-dynamic sound....

what would be cool, too, is a switch on the detector box, that switches between envelope following, or switching to an expression pedal instead... so i could switch between manual expression control of the filter, or 'detector box' envelope... maybe it could have full ADSR control, too....

maybe i just need to buy some doepfer modules and build them into floor boxes...

john

bongomania · #2 02-17-2008, 09:46 PM

Talk to Dave at Pigtronix, I think he could adapt the EP-1 to do pretty much what you're describing.

JohnDavisNYC · #3 02-17-2008, 10:06 PM

hmmm... interesting... maybe, thing is, i don't want a big, complicated pedal... just a little box that puts out CV envelope information... and an a/b with my expression pedal... so i can use it with my moog filter.... hmmm.

maybe it is a bit mad.

john

Swift713 · #4 02-17-2008, 10:10 PM

I know nothing about it but I would think it should be pretty easy. You could get the envelope filter kit from BYOC and just leave out the filter part of the circuit in favor of a 1/4 jack. Seems like it should be easy.

ehque · #5 02-17-2008, 11:07 PM

Hrmmm, to me, isn't envelope CV information simply your signal, rectified, smoothed, then amplified? If i'm not wrong you only need to split your signal, feed an opamp, then a capacitor. That should be envelope CV info right there.

The choices of values, on the other hand...

JAUQO III-X · #6 02-17-2008, 11:14 PM

There will be a new pedal on the market, thanks to your idea

jucas · #7 02-17-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

There will be a new pedal on the market, thanks to your idea

That would be amazing to see... I'd been looking at doing something similar in a box that would slide under a pedaltrain to not take up board space... I was just looking to be able to delay the attack and decay, and ignore the S and R portions. Maybe have a second output that was attenuatable to help tame some of the sweeps (I was going to use my frostwave and not the moog)

All the reading I did at DIYstompboxes would always talk about the simple envelope followers having too much ripple, and the one that was supposed to be amazing but complicated was apparantly difficult to get working, so I'd kept bumping it down the list of things to build...

If you (or jauquo or anyone) find a good solution, please let us know as I'd love to get my hands on one.

Swift713 · #8 02-18-2008, 05:18 AM

doesn't someone already make an envelope controlled loop that you can put any effect/s in?

ehque · #9 02-18-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift713

doesn't someone already make an envelope controlled loop that you can put any effect/s in?

Qtron+ has that ability, me think.

JohnDavisNYC · #10 02-18-2008, 06:45 AM

maybe we can all figure out how to build this thing... would be amazing, for sure. i guess an envelope follower and a lag processor would be the simplest way to control the slope...

hmm... i'm glad i'm not the only one excited about the possibility!

john

sonicvi · #11 02-18-2008, 07:40 AM

Craig Anderton's book Electronic Projects for Musicians has a project for a stand alone envelope follower. It basically is used to replace the function of a potentiometer in a circuit, as long as the pot is wired as a variable resistor. So it won't work with every pedal, but many.

Swimming Bird · #12 02-18-2008, 08:40 AM

The envelope controlled effect loop is called the Enveloope, by Toadworks methinks.

If you can use an audio signal as CV, why not get the Lazy Sprocket and run that A/B'ed with your expession pedal?

I love control pedals, but don't really feel they're that crazy. Heh, my idea is to make a powered true bypass/blender box for fuzzes -- it would have a potentiometer + a boost to control input impedance and a power starve control if you ran your power for the fuzz through the control box. I'd call it the 'Mother Fuzzer'.

SFjonstarr · #13 02-18-2008, 09:02 AM

You sound like you're just looking for an envelope filter with an effects loop (sidechain input). There are several on the market right now. The Chunk 00funk and the previously mentioned Pigtronix have this capability. I sprung for a 30 year old Beigel Sound Labs Envelope Controlled Filter to have a parametric envelope follower with a CV out. It also has an effects loop so I can put the fuzzes and the like after the follower but before the filter. But with the envelope follower CV out I can use the attack and decay controls along with the sensitivity knob to shape envelopes off my playing dynamics like a synth. I just had a friend bring over his moog ring mod this weekend and we were able to get all sorts of great envelope tremelos and sounds that gave tremelos when you play soft and then freak out into ring mod territory when you dig in.

SFjonstarr · #14 02-18-2008, 09:33 AM

You also might want to check out the new Barge Meatball clone. It has full attack/decay controls for the follower and an effects loop to put your octave/fuzz into.

funkalicious101 · #15 02-18-2008, 12:03 PM

I think hes looking for something much simpler than that. Just a small box with one input, then a dry out and an envelope out.

JohnDavisNYC · #16 02-18-2008, 12:22 PM

exactly... simpler, but much deeper and modular in nature... don't need no loop BS...

i am in a session... had even more ideas that i will post later.... but the band is doing vocals ods, so i have a minute free in the control room....

j

SFjonstarr · #17 02-18-2008, 04:25 PM

No loop BS? The FX loop on the filter is what would let you do this without needing any external equipment. You could just get a modular synth envelope follower (and the accompanying power supply) and an AB-Y box. You would then plug the CV out from the follower and the CV out from your control pedal into one side of the AB-Y (both
funneled into the CV in on the Moog). You could then switch between which is controlling the filter by hitting the AB-Y pedal. I just don't see that as being the "simple" or "deeper" way to go about things (although it is more modular). You wouldn't really need a lag control to shape the envelope the way I think you're saying. You would just need a follower with attack and decay controls (the attack control being turned up to increase the onset time of the envelope).

JohnDavisNYC · #18 02-18-2008, 06:22 PM

well yeah... still no loop involved in using a CV input....

i get what you are saying, and that is what i am looking for, a CV envelope follower in a pedal with an integral switch that switches between my expression pedal and it's internal envelope...

then i also thought 'wow, maybe it would be fresh to have an LFO, too...'

i was thinking the a/b box thing, but i just need to floor unit envelope follower... can't be a modular module, as this stuff needs to be in a strong metal box and be beer/AirFrance proof... ( they destroyed my last pedal board)

john

SFjonstarr · #19 02-18-2008, 06:52 PM

You were saying that you wanted to use your dry sound for the follower signal before the dynamics got smooshed by the Mammoth. The effects loop would function as follows: You send your bass signal into the filters input jack (this is what the follower uses for tracking), the filter sends out an exact copy of your signal from the effects loop output which you use to feed the rest of the pedalboard. You would plug the effects loop out into the input of your octaver. The output of your octaver into the input of the Mammoth. Mammoth output then goes into effects loop in on the filter. This is where the signal would actually go through the filter and then out the filter's output jack. This way the follower is running off of your clean sound but the filter is being fed the Mammoth/octaver chain.I recomended the Barge in particular because A: it has this effects loop which would enable you to have the clean tracking you're seeking, and B: it has attack, decay, and sensitivity knobs for the follower , and C: it has additional CV ins you could plug into directly for footpedal control.

JohnDavisNYC · #20 02-19-2008, 06:18 AM

i guess that would make sense, if i wasn't totally married to the moog filter... it is my sound, i just am trying to expand on the modular concept and have a CV generator that i can place anywhere in my chain, and theoretically control other pedals, as well... i have also been looking at the possibility of adding an LFO to this envelope generator, and a way to switch between those, as well as between pedal control or LFO/EG control.

we will see. someone has approached me about building this for me, so we will see what happens...

cheers,
john