Crazy or True?

ndrifka · #1 11-22-2008, 06:30 PM

So I was at the local music store today and I picked up some patch cables for a pedal board. All they had were the Monster Performer 500 ones. I got home and took them out of the package and noticed "signal path >>>" printed on the cable. Does this make sense to anyone? I always thought that signal path didn't matter with cables. Crazy or true

???

bongomania · #2 11-22-2008, 06:36 PM

Their whole marketing angle requires you to believe in a lot of things that are only barely true. The directionality they mention there can be measured, but only barely.

Swift713 · #3 11-22-2008, 09:43 PM

OK, my interest is piqued. How can a cable have an inherent direction?

cheapbasslovin · #4 11-22-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift713

OK, my interest is piqued. How can a cable have an inherent direction?

From an AC signal???

iamthebassplayr · #5 11-22-2008, 10:03 PM

*stabs in the dark*

My ---GUESS--- might be that copper (or silver, or anything we use for cables) has a grain patern, and perhaps the direction of the grain influences (likely extremely little) directionality....

Of course, I have no idea though, don't quote me and I could be perpetuating a horrible misconception I'm unaware of. =D

Swift713 · #6 11-22-2008, 10:11 PM

I'm not licensed but I have done some residential wiring and I've never heard of copper wire having any grain or directional bias.

cybersnyder · #7 11-22-2008, 10:22 PM

You should also make sure that your bass is higher than your amp so that the signal flows downhill and doesn't get choked by gravity. Heh.

Swift713 · #8 11-22-2008, 10:24 PM

No no no, you've got it backwards.

The electrons are lighter than the protons so they flow up.

bassninja7 · #9 11-22-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

You should also make sure that your bass is higher than your amp so that the signal flows downhill and doesn't get choked by gravity. Heh.

+1
i play with 2 810s stacked, and i gotta play on a ladder....

i lol'd at you answer(:

cheapbasslovin · #10 11-22-2008, 10:42 PM

Ahhh, as we all know Monster makes the best cables.... just ask the people at Monster, they'll tell you.

I seriously want to know how they can say that current flowing in both directions has an optimal cable orientation. They may have a loose argument with DC, but with AC.... bring it on.

bongomania · #11 11-22-2008, 11:15 PM

OK, I have to eat my words from that earlier post. A long time ago I had been told that there was some just-barely measurable amount less capacitance in one direction due to the alignment of the core windings with the shield windings, but I just searched on Monster's site and this is in their FAQ:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster

Will I notice a difference if I hook up my cables in the wrong direction?
You probably will not, but if you think that you are experiencing noise problems, check that they are. Cables are directional for shielding purposes only. Should you not see these arrows, remember that the signal flow should go in the same direction of the print on the cable jacket, reading left to right away from the source (source to destination)

Why do the cables have directional arrows?
This is done for shielding purposes only, a design where we do not solder the shield on the signal’s destination. This ensures that any noise picked up by the shield will not be transmitted into your signal path.

So oops!

JimmyM · #12 11-22-2008, 11:16 PM

This whole signal path thing has been debunked many years ago by people with half a brain.

Munjibunga · #13 11-22-2008, 11:20 PM

Monster's explanation makes sense. They don't want to put the amp's ground on the bass.

Swift713 · #14 11-23-2008, 08:08 AM

OK, that makes sense. That even sounds like a good idea, I guess.

JimmyM · #15 11-23-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Monster's explanation makes sense. They don't want to put the amp's ground on the bass.

Please 'splain. Is one ground disconnected or something?

cheapbasslovin · #16 11-23-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Please 'splain. Is one ground disconnected or something?

Unless I'm missing something they need to be running a ground and a shield in that cable.

ndrifka · #17 11-23-2008, 01:00 PM

I usually stay away from Monster, but since this is all the store had at the time...

. I think these cables will "signal path >>>" back to the store just out of principal. Damn the man!

niftydog · #18 11-23-2008, 03:36 PM

Each pedal is already referenced to it's own "ground" via either the battery or the power supply so one wire is sufficient to connect the signal between pedals. The shield is literally just that, a shield - although it does need to be connected somewhere so the noise can be shunted away. Connecting it at the "source" end is preferred to connecting at the "destination" end as it prevents the shield behaving like an antenna and feeding noise into the input of a circuit.

I sometimes recommend this approach to deal with ground loop issues.

If only we could buy cheap cables wired and labelled like this, I'd be a happy man indeed.

JimmyM · #19 11-23-2008, 05:17 PM

Just cut one end and put a piece of duct tape on that end and save $30. In 30 years of playing, I've never needed to do that to a cable to get it to work without noise.

grovest · #20 11-23-2008, 08:41 PM

Here is a long SoundStage! article about cable burn-in and directionality if you are interested.

http://www.soundstage.com/yfiles/yfiles200005.htm