A crunch with an Ampeg SVT-II

Inverness · #1 09-12-2011, 06:23 PM

Hey everyone. I finally got settled in CA, so now it's time to replenish my collection. Today, I got some questions for the fuzz/od/grind crowd.

My quandary today is very, very specific. I have an Ampeg SVT-II, and it sounds fantastic. I love it. The problem is that, while I love that SVT grind, to get said grind on the II, you have to C-R-A-N-K the stupid thing. That's not always feasible, obviously. I'd want something to compliment that. I do play very aggressively, and I'm trying to get that high end clank into the distorted realm.

At the moment, I have a Russian Big Muff and a Sansamp PBDI. I'm moving away from the PBDI because although I don't have a problem with the Sansamp sound, I found it colors the II too much. The Russian Muff, obviously, is for fuzz. I love it. I want something with a little more controllable shape. The Muff is, shall we say, all over the place.

For a reference tone, I think the closest thing I can point to is Billy Gould of Faith No More's tone on, for example, "Epic." I realize he has a Peavey Raxx, but... I like the II.

So initially, I was thinking going with the Aguilar AGRO. I like the crunch and versatility. I was also thinking of something like the Boss ODB as an-between the Agro and the Russian Muff.

So basically, if anyone has any experience with an OD-bordering-on-fuzz pedal in front of a tube amp, I'm all ears.

FaithNoMan · #2 09-12-2011, 10:16 PM

What part of "Epic"?

He used a TS-10 Tubescreamer on the punched-in, totally distorted parts of that song, as well as the TB Raxx.

Billy seems to be in love with the Fulltone Bassdrive which is tubescreamer based, and I think something like that or the Aguilar would get you closer than anything to his sound. With the Bassdrive, you could dial up both his "solo" tone from that song, and get his regular tone too.

Another pedal that has a similar grind, is the Darkglass Microtubes B3k - that seems to have that metallic edge that is so necessary to get his tone. It even seems to be the pedal's forte.

I just sold my TG Raxx(which is the same thing as the TB Raxx), and am looking for something to emulate his earlier tones(before that album even). His early early tones had no tubes involved at all, just a Peavey S.S. amp that would distort in a gnarly way, much like a GK 800RB.

I really don't hear the SVT thing at all, especially in FNM's early stuff.

Here's a shot of my 1991 BP mag, with an interview with him after "The Real Thing" album:

Inverness · #3 09-12-2011, 10:46 PM

No, it's not SVT. Not at all. I realized it was a gnarly distortion from the Raxx. The crunchy tone I'm looking for is right before the guitar solo in "Epic."

Gearhead17 · #4 09-12-2011, 10:59 PM

You could shrink down your cabinets or use something not as loud as what you currently have to CRANK the SVT 2. Cranking a SVT 2 through a 410 is much more feasible over a loud 810.

But it sounds like you are looking for a heavier style of distortion....

FaithNoMan · #5 09-12-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

No, it's not SVT. Not at all. I realized it was a gnarly distortion from the Raxx. The crunchy tone I'm looking for is right before the guitar solo in "Epic."

The soloed bass track used to be up on youtube, but that part definitely sounds like he kicked the Tube Screamer in there. The bass got totally fuzzed out there, and was extremely LOUD on the raw track.

I'm still wondering if he used the TB Raxx to actually record that album, though. I know he used it live, and it was suggested to him by Lee Sklar.

EDIT: He definitely used the Tube Screamer in the break in Epic. I re-read the article. He also used it in the breaks(with flanger) in "Woodpeckers From Mars".

kosmicwizard · #6 09-12-2011, 11:24 PM

I know pedals can help, but there are so many different levels of OD between 11 O'clock (when my SVT II stats to get hairy) and sonic assault when it is at 3 O'clock, I never need to crank it. + 1 to changing your overall volume needs by your cab choice. Even though the 410HLF is voiced differently than the 810, it creates less dBs because it has half the drivers and it is still 4 Ohms. Cheers.

Inverness · #7 09-13-2011, 05:43 PM

For the record (never pointed this out in the first place!), my cabs are two Aguilars: 410 and 212 - both at 4 ohms. I have gone the most metal of routes and turned the tweeter down on the 410 and off completely on the 212.

(Yes, the cabs are mismatched in terms of speaker arsenal. Yes, they are ported. No, I don't care. I'll have the Berg NV610 vs. Aguilar 410+212 argument at a different date.)

That trademark Ampeg growl/whoomph on the lows and low mids, I love that. It's the clank that I want distorted, and I'm not totally eliminating it even when I crank the II. That's why I feel I need an OD pedal to add sizzle to the clank. The Russian Muff is too much and loses the high-mid definition.

sunbeast · #8 09-13-2011, 06:57 PM

I no longer have a tube amp to pair it up with, but I have nothing but love for the Tronographic Rusty Box. I have tried most of the different "classes/standards" of drive pedals and many of their boutique derivatives, and the Rusty Box is the first I've used that gives me as much saturation as I could want without losing either low end or punch (ie- most overdrives/fuzzes compress too much- especially the Tubescreamer and its derivatives, and the Big Muff in my experience), and it cuts through a mix like nothing else. I don't think it'd be too hard to dial in something close to that Faith No More tone using a Rusty Box combined with your amp.

The Rusty Box is a copy of the preamp section of an old Traynor solid-state amp that happened to have a very unique and great sounding drive when pushed, and can be used either as an effect or a preamp directly into a power amp. The bassists of the bands Shellac and Jesus Lizard both used the original Traynor amp as a preamp (bassist of Shellac plugged into a Crown power amp I believe, and Jesus Lizard into the power amp of a GK 800RB, both into dual 15" cabs). Here's a live clip of Shellac where he's using it (skip to 2:20 to hear the bass clearly):
Shellac Live A Minute 7-27-1997 Chicago,IL - YouTube

You can check out just about any clips by either of those bands to hear what the Rusty Box sounds like (the Traynor preamp was a big part of the tone for both bassists). Be sure to check out other threads about it on Talkbass as well.

The pedal definitely has a strong character of its own, but not what I would call overpowering unless you crank it to its extremes. I use mine as an effect into a Mesa Walkabout and can dial in a wide range of different grindy tones using a combo of EQ and gain on both the pedal and the amp, and having previously owned a couple SVTs and other tube amps, I have no doubt that the SVT II would pair fabulously with it!

JimmyM · #9 09-13-2011, 08:02 PM

If you want cranked SVT style overdrive, either the VT Bass or Catalinbread SFT would be good.

Inverness · #10 11-11-2011, 04:03 PM

So I thought I should follow up on this, seeing as I've started making purchases.

I went with my gut here and got the AGRO. I realized the problem with my initial post. It's a paradox. The type of overdrive I was looking for is that more gnarly, solid state overdrive that is more like what Billy Gould of Faith No More or Marco Hietala of Nightwish sounds like. At the same time, I love the total tone structure of the SVT-II. I just had it re-biased. As I mentioned, I have its pushing an Aggie 410 and a 212. I was testing it with an EBMM SR5 HS.

Bass: 2 o'clock
Mid: 3 o'clock
Mid Freq: Position 2 (400 Hz? I lost the PDF manual when my HD crashed)
Treble: noon
Graphic EQ: typical smiley face

(Unfortunately, no sound clips as of yet.)

Since the MM's humbucker is ridiculously crisp, I had roll back the presence to 10:30-11 on the AGRO and knock down the highs on the Stingay (I do that normally). Saturation is usually somewhere between 1-2, and the Contour is around noon. This is getting me VERY close to that gnarly OD with a little more definition and bottom bass bump - which is what I wanted. Since I don't play with a pick normally, I won't be able to get those tones exactly, but what can you do.

I also fired up the Muff pedal, and yup, that's still my favorite fuzz tone.

Of course, since I'm brand new to this pedal word but no stranger to GAS and the tone quest, it's just a start. Just thought I'd check back with y'all. More pedals to come. That B3K sounds cool...

paradigm_shift · #11 11-11-2011, 04:25 PM

Crowther hotcake is probably worth a look too.

vegas532 · #12 11-11-2011, 04:49 PM

If you ever need convincing on a Bass-Drive with an SVT-II combination, check this out:

Autolux - Turnstile Blues (From the Basement) - YouTube

sunbeast · #13 11-11-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegas532

If you ever need convincing on a Bass-Drive with an SVT-II combination, check this out:

Autolux - Turnstile Blues (From the Basement) - YouTube

That band has a good sound going- any idea what the bass player is modulating during the verses? A whammy or something? It sounds like it is only affecting the top end like a second guitarist, which is a pretty cool effect!

vegas532 · #14 11-11-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeast

That band has a good sound going- any idea what the bass player is modulating during the verses? A whammy or something? It sounds like it is only affecting the top end like a second guitarist, which is a pretty cool effect!

Digitech XP-100 Whammy/Wah - 5th up/6th up setting.

FaithNoMan · #15 11-11-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Of course, since I'm brand new to this pedal word but no stranger to GAS and the tone quest, it's just a start. Just thought I'd check back with y'all. More pedals to come. That B3K sounds cool...

The B3K is cool, and I'm a FNM/Billy Gould junkie.

The Oxford was the closest I came to Billy's early tone before I got my B3K. Before I got it, I also bought an Agro and a Rusty Box, by Tronographic.

There was something I'm not sure i liked with my Ric in the mids with the Rusty, and the Agro sounded too much like my Oxford, but with less eq'ing ability. It never got quite enough "shine" up top for me. This, and the ability to blend it seamlessly(ie: not able to hear two different things at the same time) is what made the B3K rise above all other overdrives I have used.

For the money, the Ox is no slouch, though(nor is the Rusty):
http://soundcloud.com/grinere/dummydarko

Inverness · #16 11-11-2011, 09:17 PM

Someone did point out in the B3K thread (maybe it was you?) that the Agro is darker sounding than the B3K. I would agree from the sound clips I've heard with the B3K and the first hand experience with Agro. On the other hand, Stingrays, and I suppose the II for that matter, have that inherent aggressive upper mid bite that needs a little taming, so the fact that the Agro is darker up top actually works to my advantage.

I should try it with my Sonus and Jazz - and my Ibanez, if the damn neck didn't warp on the way out to California

. 95% sure I'll be jumping on a B3K and a VT bass. My girlfriend's gone for two weeks. That's enough time to sneak 'em in and out, right?

FaithNoMan · #17 11-11-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Someone did point out in the B3K thread (maybe it was you?) that the Agro is darker sounding than the B3K. I would agree from the sound clips I've heard with the B3K and the first hand experience with Agro. On the other hand, Stingrays, and I suppose the II for that matter, have that inherent aggressive upper mid bite that needs a little taming, so the fact that the Agro is darker up top actually works to my advantage.

I should try it with my Sonus and Jazz - and my Ibanez, if the damn neck didn't warp on the way out to California

. 95% sure I'll be jumping on a B3K and a VT bass. My girlfriend's gone for two weeks. That's enough time to sneak 'em in and out, right?

No, if one works out for you, good! My Ric, with the high resistance pots on the bridge pup is really aggressive in the high mids too. That being said, I'm a new "stupid fanboy" of the B3K

But - I have 3 year old strings on. Perhaps I should change them? I have a "new" set of Lo-Riders sitting next to me..for the past 2 months...
I joined a "Procrastinator's forum" once, about 3 years ago as well. I still haven't completed the email validation yet.

Inverness · #18 11-11-2011, 11:53 PM

Those strings! Yeah, that'd do it. I just put Hi-Beams on the Zon and all the rest have ProSteels. Bright city.

FaithNoMan · #19 11-12-2011, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Those strings! Yeah, that'd do it. I just put Hi-Beams on the Zon and all the rest have ProSteels. Bright city.

Hey, thems are pretty bright! I like the Lo-Riders.

But yeah - it's past "change me" time.

spiker · #20 11-12-2011, 12:26 AM

Try an ebs multidrive, best drive pedal ive used. Gets fat breakup without the need to crank your tube amp. So useable on any rock song, like when u listen to what u think is a clean bass track on a rock song, then u listen closer and you hear a bit of growl for tones sake moreso than to achieve distortion.