To D.I. or not to D.I.?

[Epac]

Hello Bass Brothers,

I've been thinking about ways of getting the clearest, phattest tone over these past few weeks, and have come across a possible way of enhancing my sound. I want to hear everything; the deep lows, punchy mids, and the lightest highs. I was reading about Chris Chaney today and he mentioned that he often runs through a Buddah DI...I saw a player killin' it a few weeks ago, playing the same bass model I go with, same GK head and everything, but I noticed he was using a nifty little DI Box...

Who here makes use of a DI? What are the advantages of using one? What does a DI do to a live-rig, if you're going from the bass to di to your head? Why a DI box and not just go from your bass head?

And which DIs would go with, for what situations?

Thanks guys, sorry if this is a weak question,

E

[gratt]

It really depends for everyone, and how your stage mix works as well.
Do you feel like you need a lot of "stage noise" from your amp to hear yourself live, or are you comfortable getting a good sound? A DI will help to fatten up your sound through the mains, but if you're going to blare your actual amp anyways, it might be a waste of money on your behalf to invest in a DI.

It also depends on your actual preamp. For example, my BBE BMax-T has a wonderful Jensen transformer in its DI out and so that's kind of canceled the necessity of a DI box for my amp. Amps that have a noisy or hot 'out' can really benefit from a DI box.

There are also some reaaally nice tube DIs out there that can help warm up your tone before the amp. I find these work really nice (at least for passive basses, have yet to try an active with this scenario), because you're warming up the tone before it even hits the preamp's EQ. It really gives a fat, round, clean tone.

[JimmyM]

you are right. it was a weak question.



not really...it's a pretty good one, actually. some di's are good, some not so good by comparison. all of them will work just fine on a gig. from your amp, from a separate box, doesn't really matter. i don't often di, but when i do, it's with a separate because it sounds better to me than most amp di's. but really, it's all nitpicking. just plug in and play as good as you can and don't worry so much about equipment until you've had a little time to do some research.

[Epac]

I think i get what your saying....
with regards to your first point, are getting a good sound coming from the mains and getting a strong stage sound mutually exclusive all the time? There must be a sweet spot between being able to hear yourself on stage and getting a good sound in the house.

I got just a basic GK bass head, nothing special, looking to upgrade at some point, I don't think the DI on it is much to talk about. I'm looking to maybe get a di to "warm up" the sound before it gets to the head/preamp, as you said. Basically, I want to hear more of my bass, get a cleaner, tighter sound.

Essentially my question is, what particular opportunities/features does a DI box offer to the quest for a cleaner, tighter sound? If you had the best pre-amp in the world, what would a DI bring to the table?

E

[Epac]

Sorry, missed your comment, JimmyM. I get what you're saying. Have you ever gone DI into your amp, combining the two? or is that ridiculous and unadvisable?

E

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Epac

Essentially my question is, what particular opportunities/features does a DI box offer to the quest for a cleaner, tighter sound? If you had the best pre-amp in the world, what would a DI bring to the table?

not much at all since it would no doubt have a di out of its own. and no, getting a good stage sound and a good pa sound aren't mutually exclusive. the pa sound should reflect what the amp sounds like in a perfect world. but pa cabs and bass cabs are different things, so they might require different eqing to accomplish the same thing.

also, no, i've never gone in for complicated setups with multiple di lines and whatnot. the most complicated i get is a single di and a mic on the cab. usually i do one or the other, mostly a mic.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Epac

Sorry, missed your comment, JimmyM. I get what you're saying. Have you ever gone DI into your amp, combining the two? or is that ridiculous and unadvisable?

E

You are confusing a preamp with a DI (although some units combine both functions). If you like the tone of your bass, and run your amp reasonably clean, then a direct, pure signal to the board using either the pre EQ DI from your amp or a decent stand alone DI like the Countryman is a great way to go. If, on the other hand, you use your amp to generate distortion or significant EQ and voicing to actually change the tone of your bass a lot, then either mic'ing the cab (which will then take your entire signal chain into the board) or finding a preamp that has a DI as part of its feature set (sansamp, Sadowsky or whatever... in other words, a preamp that generates its own tone that can then be fed into both your amp and front of house) might be the way to go.

It really just depends on your tone goals. For me, I love the pure sound of my bass through a mixing board in a studio. Hence, a simple, pure DI (the DI on your amp will work fine) is my preferred path the front of house. Others like what an old school cab or a vintage tube amp or a grindy GK rig does to their sound, so they like to mic up a cab. Others work very hard to find a preamp/DI combo (Reddi, sansamp, etc.) that mimics their stage sound so that they can still feed a nice signal to the board, but then also have the exact stage sound they want.

The one thing that rarely works is a POST EQ signal from your amp, since the EQ you use to make your bass cab sound good will probably complicate the sound person's job of getting a similar tone from the much larger sounding, wider, more even front of house system.

[JonnyAngle]

I use the Sansamp BDDI and love it. Just this last weekend my amp overheated and it was no big deal, soundwise. I was still heard loud and clear through the mains.

[MNAirHead]

You're talking a tone shaping DI box.. every bassist should own one..

Budget one is the MXR M-80.. other ones are out there at 3-10x the price.

[stflbn]

Never any problems with DI personally. However, when possible I'll mix both a DI and Mic on separate board channels and use the DI channels for meat and lows and the Mic channel for a bit sweeter mids/highs.

On the majority of gigs however, I just take the DI out of my RH450 set to PostEQ, and the channel on the board normaly stays completely flat. Just faster, easier and less hassle.

[Bootzilla]

Maybe you should get your tone goals sorted out before you start buying stuff. You say you want a warm sound, a clear sound, an even sound, a full sound etc.

If you want to sound warm you have to cut some highs. If you to sound full you have to keep the highs. Maybe you should experiment with the tools you have before searching for new gear.

The only thing a di will do for your sound is giving the soundguy a very full range sound (no coloration or drop of low lows / high highs from the amp and cab) that he can put into the mains. If you want a warm sound that is usually not considered full range so a DI won't help you. If you want a more modern hi-fi sound than a DI could do the trick.

[The Lurker]

Just FYI, "Deep lows, punchy mids, lightest highs" etc is pretty much what EVERY musician, from accordion to zither, would like to hear...

The conventional wisdom for larger shows these days consists pretty much of using your amp for stage monitoring, and letting the DI and PA do the brute force work of putting sound into the house.

[Schizoid75]

Just to clarify for the OP: The term DI or direct box covers a lot of ground. But basically it's a device used when playing live or in the studio to get your bass to the sound board without actually mic'ing up your amp. I'm generalizing here, but most of them (especially the ones that most sound guys will hand you during a live gig) do not contain any tone shaping circuitry (at least nothing that you can adjust). So, they do not impart any different tone qualities to your existing rig when used between your bass and your amp. However, there are many DI's you can buy which also contain eq circuits, overdrive/distortion circuits, etc. and WILL change the tone heading into your amp.

I just wanted to make sure you were on the same page with everyone. I'd hate for you to buy some generic DI only to find that it did nothing to your sound.

Hope that helps!

[TC2112]

I use the sansamp DI direct into the board and just have a small rig on stage for a monitor. perfect setup for me. don't have to be too loud from the stage and the PA does all the FOH work. I'm not an effects head, so I just like the tone of my bass with a little drive and presence. It's simple and funky, and my setup and teardown is a breeze. Played up to 1000 seaters this way with no problems hearing, and my head's not ringing the next day

[Chronicle]

I lent my friend my Aguilar Tonehammer for his show a while ago. His tone was AWESOME through the PA. I was very surprised as I usually don't DI live or I use the one on my Mesa Boogie M6 which is fine in itself.

For recording, DI's are very nice to have. I usually will record my bass tracks on a DI when I want a clean solo or I'm using modulation effects that need to be heard with a very clear recording. I'll use my mic for fuzz and distortion tracks. Sometimes, it's even better to DI and mic at the same time and just lower/mute the track of the sound you don't want heard. (Like fuzz through a DI)

[Epac]

Hmmmm...alot of think about. Thanks for all your info, guys.

I hear you JKung, on the point of thinking about how much EQ you want to put on your tone.I have been confusing a pre-amp with a DI all along. Generally, I like to play pretty clean through my amp...my bass does tend to track bass-y in alot of situations though, so I reach for the EQ nobs on a pre-amp or head to add some highs and mids. I feel what Bootzilla is saying about continuing to "perfect" the sound on my bass itself, tweaking stuff.

I was playing a small coffee-shop gig the other day, and i playing through a phil jones small amp, was having alot of trouble hearing myself. So I kept turning it up and after a while, all I could hear was this big boooom sound. Looking back I figure I should have turned down the lows a bit, turned up the volume up, and just added just enough bass to be felt against the guitars. What I suspect, taking all of this in, is I need to get down and dirty in figuring out how to EQ myself and what sounds best using what I have.

My last question is, what is the difference between having a tone-shaping DI going to the board and going post-EQ with an amp? Don't they provide the same difficulties for a soundman?

Thanks for all your help guys, i'm going to be thinking each of your posts in detail....

E

[JimmyM]

the difference between pre and post is that if you adjust something on your amp, it will change the mix in the house. but honestly, i do it all the time when we have a soundman (as mentioned before i use a mic most of the time) and i really don't care. so the guy has to move a knob...big deal. suck it up.

however, i am a professional. i do not recommend that for newbies to gigging. i recommend listening and learning and doing everything by the book until you figure out what's going on.

[Schizoid75]

One of the biggest things we all have to learn about playing live is that what sounds good when you're rehearsing by yourself or on stage may not sound good in the house. It might feel wrong to turn the bass knob down, but if it allows you to be heard better by the audience and creates a better mix, why not?

Yes, using a tone shaping DI or using your amp's DI post-eq can create the same problems. I try not to boost or cut any of my eq too much for just that reason--let the soundman do the tone shaping that works for the room. I also always ask the sound guy if he's getting any problems from my tone--too much or too little of anything.

If you don't have a wireless you should consider getting one, even if you only use it to go out and hear your sound in the room during soundcheck. Then you can make changes to your eq and hear how it changes your stage sound as well as the mix in the house.

[JimmyM]

i would add if you only get a wireless for soundcheck, get a wireless that actually sounds like your cable those cheap line 6 wirelesses are great for that purpose. i can't tell the difference with them.

[kraigo]

There are a myriad of them. I think my next DI box will be a passive Radial. Pretty much just a transformer.

KO