Delay advice: analog vs. digital

[shoegazebass]

All -

I need some advice from you handsome devils about delay. I searched far and wide on this great board and didn't find anything to address my specific concerns so I thought I'd throw these questions out there.

I have used the Boss DD-3 and DD-5, Line6 DM4 and Echo Park and (currently) the EHX SMMH and have been unhappy with them all for a variety of reasons. To this point, I have stayed away from analog delays under the (mistaken?) assumption that analog delays would be too muddy for my liking. In your experiences, is this true or a misapprehension?

What I am looking for in a delay is the following:

1) An echoing, trailing delay in the background that creates sort of a swirly effect while playing. Not necessarily looking for modulation here - one of the things I'm not liking about the SMMH is the filter/modulation.

2) A rhythmic delay that can do the U2/Chameleons sort of thing (on guitar in their case).

3) Psychedelic weirdness...been relying on reverse effects for this, but think that I have enough effects on my board to do this in other ways.

So, I will take and appreciate as advice anything from "you're right/wrong about analog delays" to "you need to check this pedal out as it's a perfect fit for you".

[Le Basseur]

Originally Posted by shoegazebass

check this pedal out

...probably not the "only one","best for you",etc....but,try a Yamaha UD Stomp unit.
Highly configurable for what you described (8 independent delays),hi-quality electronics and hardware.
The only minus:it's out of production.
Regards,

[markjazzbassist]

eventide timefactor. it has everything in it. buy it.

[bongomania]

Just as not all digital delays are "cold", not all analog delays are "muddy". That said, IMO analog delays in general do one thing well, whereas digital delays (depending on the specific unit) may offer more options, so you may be able to find what you're looking for by messing around with one versatile digi unit versus several "one good sound" analog units. And that said, see if you can try out an old Scholz Rockman stereo delay. They are analog, yet they do both the U2 "chiming" and weird psychedelia very well. I can think of lots of digi options worth trying, but that's less fun than making you hunt down an obscure and expensive vintage analog piece. It really is a good one though.

[savinggrace]

The fact that you mentioned The Chameleons make you awesome in my book.

TC Electronic Vintage digital delay is amazingly warm while not being muddy at all but you will have to use it in conjunction with something else to get the stranger psych stuff. That would be my first choice but is rather expensive.

I am really liking my Dano Wasabi Delay which is a digital pedal that is amazingly analog sounding but without any extra noise. The pedal is not made anymore but it should not by too difficult to find used.

Guyatone M-3 is another good digital choice that still retains warmth.

[shoegazebass]

Thanks all for the feedback so far - I thought I'd beaten the bushes bare of new pedals to check out but I didn't recognize a couple of the pedals mentioned.

@markjazzbassist: I actually had been thinking about the Timefactor when I purchased the SMMH, but I heard that it was really noisy. I also am not sure how much I will end up using delay, which made the price tag high for something that I might not use all the time.

@bongo: That response is what keep my GAS fires stoked! Your statement about analog vs. digital is pretty much why I decided ultimately to post - figured that the muddiness wasn't necessarily due to an analog circuit. Plus I find the SMMH to be pretty muddy, and that's digital. Finally, I really like the sound of a BBD-based delay, I am finding.

@savinggrace: Always glad to hear from another Chams fan. I'll never understand why they weren't more popular...their guitar sound is so fantastic! Isn't the wasabi delay a Dano pedal? Or am I thinking of something else?

[savinggrace]

"@savinggrace: Always glad to hear from another Chams fan. I'll never understand why they weren't more popular...their guitar sound is so fantastic! Isn't the wasabi delay a Dano pedal? Or am I thinking of something else?"

No, you are right. It was late when I wrote that and I had two thoughts in my head. The Wasabi delay is indeed a Danoelectric and probably the best pedal that they have ever made. It is very "un-danoelectro-like" as far as the quality of its sound, if you get what I am saying.

[ArchDuke]

Check out the Pigtronix Echolution. It is really expensive, but it is one of the best and most versatile delays I've heard. Plus it has so many features you'll probably be messing around with it for a while.

[Swimming Bird]

I thought that the SMMH was analog. My DMM certainly is, as was the original SMM -- isn't the SMMH the same circuit?

[JanusZarate]

Originally Posted by Swimming Bird

I thought that the SMMH was analog. My DMM certainly is, as was the original SMM -- isn't the SMMH the same circuit?

Nope. It's anything but the original. It's digital and goes well beyond anything any analog delay is capable of.

I've read reviews by guitarists and talked to guitarists who have said that the analog Memory Man sound is "in there", but it's not the reason to buy this pedal.

I did get a chance to compare the Boss DD-6 to the EHX Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai a few days ago... I'm having a hard time understanding how the SMMH is muddy, although it certainly can have warmer repeats in comparison to the Boss DD-6.

For maximum clarity on the SMMH, you have to roll back the Decay knob. If you leave that up, you're inviting more traditional styles of analog delay decay. That's really one of the beauties of the SMMH - it can be DD-6-ish with low Decay settings, or it can be more ambient and reverb-like as some analog delays can be with higher Decay settings. Plus, there's that Filter knob to brighten or darken the repeats.

The Boss DD-6 doesn't have that flexibility, although it certainly is cheaper and more compact than the SMMH.

If you do want other delays to look into with clarity and weirdness... maybe you could check out the Boss Space Echo (RE-20, I believe) reissue?

[RickenBoogie]

I'm a recent member of the delay with bass camp, and I think the Ehx SMMH is about the coolest delay ever. And, it's anything but muddy. I love the tweakability of this pedal, and that it has a loop feature, short though it is, it's very handy in my situation. (I play bass and keyboard synth) I can play a short bass line, loop it, and have my hands free to lay some synth to the mix. It's very clean and precise, give it some more time to find your sound with it.

[bass-shy]

I've never had much need for anything with longer than half a second of delay time, tap tempo or looping capabilities. Reverse delay really isn't for me, either. However, I have owned about half a dozen delay pedals and the ones that I find to be the best sounding and most useful are:

Guyatone MD-3 - Really clean repeats, easy to use and the best (IMO) self-oscillation/psychedelic sound generation of any digital pedal I have used.

Boss DM-2 - Really warm and thick sounding repeats, excellent reverb-type effects with the delay time set low, and the absolute standard for self-oscillation/crazy noises of any delay.......digital, analog or otherwise.........(IMO).

Homebrew Electronics Mimic Mock II - A perfect balance of the Guyatone's and Boss' strong points. It is warm without sounding too muddy, has a great range of sounds from reverbish to crazy self-oscillation, and it is built better than either the Guyatone or Boss units.

I should mention that I own an older Mimic Mock II that was made with NOS Panasonic BBD IC's. The newer models have a reissue of the Panasonic BBD's. I have not tried the newest version so I can't comment on the differences/similarities between the two.

I hope some of this was helpful to someone. I know that finding the perfect pedal can be daunting. Good luck.

[shoegazebass]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I think that I should give the SMMH a little more time before I kick it to the curb, as it were. I'd still like to try out an analog delay, although I doubt that I'm enough of an audiophile to hear the difference in a band setting.

[hoerni]

Originally Posted by Le Basseur

...probably not the "only one","best for you",etc....but,try a Yamaha UD Stomp unit.
Highly configurable for what you described (8 independent delays),hi-quality electronics and hardware.
The only minus:it's out of production.
Regards,

True, but the Magic Stomp has some of the patches from the UD-Stomp, including the 8 independent delay and 8 cascaded delays.

The only downside is it requires a computer to get all the functionality (8 pages of settings with many settings per page).

I'm currently using a DL-4 for my bass delay needs. The analog and tape emulation are good (tape better than analog - nothing compares to a good bucket brigade device). But the extra benefit of the looper really makes it the right choice.

[bigchiefbc]

By the way, there is one more pedal that has not been mentioned here. The Guyatone TD-X tube echo is a digital pedal, so it can do the clean, chimey U2 tone, but it also has a pretty good decaying analog simulation as well. There are clips of this thing on Youtube, and also on Gearwire, but I have yet to find one local so I can try before I buy. But I have had my eye on it for a while

[OhThePeacock]

Is the Boss DM-2 digital or analog?

[bass-shy]

It's analog of the early 80's variety.

[Deluge Of Sound]

The purple Maxon delay is a fantastic analog delay.

It's also like $300

[TaySte_2000]

Just await the Subdecay Echo Box clips that someone should be doing soon, I think it's a happy medium.

But reading your spec for a sound you are going to ned one of the mulit type digital delays like the SMMH or DD-20. Boss Space Echo might be the ticket though the RE-20