DI box with a speaker cab emulation?

[DosiYanarchy]

Sorry guys, i realize this may be in the wrong forum as its about DI boxes, but it relates to speaker emulation and using effects with a DI box. I apologize if i ask some stupid questions.

First, let me give some background on me and my setup: I Use a VTbass, but at the front of my chain so that most of my effects DONT run into it (i dont like the effect it has on them - especially my MXR blowtorch).
currently my chain is:

Bass(usually passive) -> tuner -> Steel Leather -> Cream Pie -> VTbass -> MXR Blowtorch -> MXR Blue Box -> Wren&Cuff Pickle Pie B -> Danelectro 18v Cool Cat Chorus -> 105q Bass Wah -> BBE OptoStomp -> Ashdown MAG 300 1x15 (flat EQ)


after a gig i played last night I've begun thinking that without some sort of speaker emulation after my effects but before a DI, wouldn't my fuzzes sound unnecessarily harsh going through the PA?? I've hardly ever been mic'd up (even in my old band that gigged far more regularly and played larger venues, it was always DI - but i never used effects then except a BDDI - which worked wonders)

im really happy with the effect the VTbass has on my clean tone, but im worried that my fuzzes will sound horrible DI'd even tho i love the way they sound out of my 1x15. (i've never been impressed with the sound of Fuzzes being DI'd although I do appreciate reviewers doing it so that its a better reference point)

I dont really know anything about PA's and its not often that we play big enough gigs that require DI-ing. But its a definite thought for the future.

My ashdown amp has a DI out, and as i set my amp EQ flat it should just be pure VTbass for my clean tone. Although i've never used the DI and dont know how good it is.

I would like a DI Box, and im currently looking at the PALMER PDI-09, which is a DI with guitar Cab simulation, however i worry that this might cut my lows too much, anyone with any experience?
Apparently the only way to hear the cab emulation is through the XLR as the output jack is a parallel out, so it wouldnt effect the tone of my gear going to my amp, just deminish some of the excessive harshness going to the PA.

I was tempted by the new DBX passive DI, but it wont solve my speaker cab emulation problem, although i have heard it rivals some of the Radial stuff at half the price.

And really is this even a problem, or do most of you effects users never have a problem with this?

I know if i had the VTbass last in my chain it would sort out the DI issue and it could make my effects less harsh for sending FOH, but then i would be unhappy with the tone comming from my amp, and if im unhappy with that It'll put me off my performance.

I really dont want another sansamp, a BDDI would be wasted on me because of the VTbass, and i really dont need the EQ and drive options that come with it. Same with the PODs and the such, its just too much. I just want bass Cab emulation, i've got the tube-pre-like sound i want.

my budget is pretty minimal (around £75) and id rather purchase from the UK or Europe.

i've heard some positive stuff about the Palmer for bass (i think Geddy lee uses some old Plamer speaker sim), but im not yet convinced, cos I assume that going through something that might model a 4x10 guitar cab, might sound very different to my 1x15 bass cab. But this is what i want to go for essentially.

I must admit i havent done a search, but i thought this was a pretty specific question (as most people look for the most transparent DI, im looking for one which will sound like i've mic'd my amp)

so for a shorter version of the essay i just wrote:
reasonably cheap (cheaper than a new sansamp), reliable DI's with bass cab emulation?

[TaySte_2000]

Wouldn't bother personally the PA has speakers in it so that gives you the speaker tone, you'd be much better of sending them an EQ'ed signal that sounds good through the PA.

Most speaker sims replicate a guitarist 4x12 even the Radial stuff cuts lows and highs I just wouldn't bother.

I should be posting some clips of the jam I had on Saturday soon where I DI'ed and Mic'd my amp so I'm interested to hear the difference

[DosiYanarchy]

cheers TaySte, i did consider a standard DI with an EQ pedal infront of it to cut some highs, obviously i would have to sit down with a PA in a rehersal space and work out what freq's to cut.

I have thought about getting a used BDDI just for its cab emulation (as i mentioned i dont like the way my effects sound going into it through my amp - it seems to rob the harshness on the settings i prefered for my clean tone- but i could see how that might be beneficial for DI purposes), and for the price of the DBX and an EQ pedal, I could probably pick up a used BDDI and get it in one box with a parallel out, ground lift, line boost ect.

Obviously a PA has speakers and will give you a speaker tone (im not that retarded....most of the time ) but because im not really aware of the speaker configuration used in PA's i was worried that i could be sending my distorted tone through something with a tweeter (played though a 2x10 with a tweeter and was DI'd last night, and i actually couldnt use my fuzz pedals they sounded so bad - im assuming that was mostly the cab's fault, but it got me thinking about the PA issue)

Id really love to hear your clips when they're posted

[TaySte_2000]

I've always Di'ed all my effect all the time only recently have I messed around with Mic'ing and still not happy enough to use it live.

I did a session for another band with fuzz on all the tracks DI'ed I'll Pm you a link when I get in and find it.

[DosiYanarchy]

sweet, cheers Tayste. Ok, I guess ill just got for a passive DI when i get some dollar. I guess, given a proper soundcheck, a soundguy will be able to sort out whats needed.

yeah if you could PM me, id really appreciate it.

thanks again

[dannybuoy]

The VT Bass has got speaker simulation in it... why not run it near the end of your chain after your dirt boxes? That's what I do - Dirt -> Fuzz -> Filter -> VT Bass -> Compressor -> Delay -> DI.

[Timi]

Originally Posted by TaySte_2000

Wouldn't bother personally the PA has speakers in it so that gives you the speaker tone

If you play a cab with a horn then yes, but if the sound you like is overdrive through a hornless cab, the only way to DI that tone to the PA is a speaker sim, or at least a really sharp LPF (which hardly any live consoles will do).

[DosiYanarchy]

yeah, im still unsure of the general speaker setup of a PA system, but i think i either need:
1. A DI + eq Pedal to remove some highs, or perhaps a MXR M-80 which'll do both
2. a BDDI which'll give me the EQ option and bass Cab simulation

turns out the Palmer isnt what im looking for.

to dannybuoy: i tried it today, i wanted it to work, but i've yet to find a sound i like with most of my fuzzes going into it, except for the Cream Pie - but thats a really low gain OD.
To my ears the Pickle Pie B sounds even better receiving the VTbass signal than it does clean signal, more dynamic and aggressive. Going into it, just sounds a bit flat and boring, which it isnt! this is just my opinion. Id rather run the VT at the end and just buy a DI, but not at the cost of the sounds i want from my pedals. i'd rather just DI and roll off a bit of the highs.
I also discovered today that not only do i not like the Blowtorch going into VTbass, there is a noticable difference when it comes after it too, makes it a little less 'clean' and punchy, so im gonna invest in a dual loop to switch the VT off and the Blowtorch on at the same time. i've got a Boss Line Selector comming any day now, that i was gonna use for my MXR Blue Box (to add clean blend and boost volume), but i might give it a go with the blowtorch and VTbass too.

[Timi]

Try a Bad Monkey at the end of your chain. Its second speaker sim output only seems to roll the high end off like a speaker rather than doing anything major to the low end. Even on bypass it still works.

Also, you will not be able to simulate a speaker with a simple eq pedal, you need to use something that can give you a low pass filter around 3k with a really sharp rolloff (18dB per oct+), plus a slight boost around 2-3k.

[DosiYanarchy]

ok, the bad monkey idea sounds good.
Thanks Timi

I see what you mean about the EQ, but really im not trying to go for an authentic speaker cab tone, im just trying to make sure that when i step on a fuzz, its not gonna sound too terrible - and by this i mean pretty much maybe scoop the high-mids a little and bring down the highs. As mentioned before, im not really a fan of DI'd fuzz sounds, mainly coz they sound too harsh and less dynamic (to my ears). I'd love to have the LPF that you suggested, but i wouldnt know what to get, how to impliment it, or even afford it.

[itzs]

The EBS microbass II has a speaker simulation switch for the DI out. =)

But i hardly every use it now. Prefer a clean tone from the DI.

[varunkapahi]

if your vt always remains on you can go for any DI, even the one on the amp because vt does emulate 10" speakers

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

if your vt always remains on you can go for any DI, even the one on the amp because vt does emulate 10" speakers

All it is is a rolloff past 5k AFAICT. I hear nothing uniquely 10" about the VT pedal.

[Lync]

The Zoom B2 series has 3 speaker cab emulation settings for each model.

[DosiYanarchy]

Originally Posted by itzs

The EBS microbass II has a speaker simulation switch for the DI out. =)

But i hardly every use it now. Prefer a clean tone from the DI.

Ha if i could find an EBS Microbass II for £75 I would be a very happy man, but also, its got far more uses than a cab-emulating DI, id feel like i was wasting it even if i did get one really cheap

[DosiYanarchy]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

if your vt always remains on you can go for any DI, even the one on the amp because vt does emulate 10" speakers

my VT is on all the time, but its at the front of my signal chain, so its essentially my 'clean/bass' tone, the problem is that my effects (mainly my Fuzzes/ODs) all run after it so they dont have any cab emulation and may sound really harsh though a PA. I explained above why i run my VT first, but thanks for the input.

theo

[dannybuoy]

If you don't like what the VT does to your fuzzes, you might find the BDDI has the same effect. There is one for sale on basschat for £75 though! The Behringer clone is worth a shot too.

I happen to love the sound of my Supercollider -> VT -> JDI and will be rocking it next Tuesday for the first time through a decent PA.

[DosiYanarchy]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

All it is is a rolloff past 5k AFAICT. I hear nothing uniquely 10" about the VT pedal.

ohh so TaySte was pretty much on the money when he suggested a DI with an EQ, obviously its probably not as effective as a LPF, but probably might work well enough for me:

checked out the Digitech stuff, the Bad Monket does have cabinet modelling, but probably guitar cab modelling. their bass fx also have cab modelling, which id hope were better suited to bass frequencies, but to be honest, i dont really want any digitech pedals at the moment - and you have to physically turn on the modelling each time you want it:

To Enable CIT™ Cabinet Modeling
1. Press and hold the Pedal down.
2.Apply power by either connecting a 1/4” instrument cable to the
Bass Synth Wah Input or connect the PS200R power supply to
the AC Adapter Jack.



ZoomZoomZoom, i've never owned any of their stuff and my pedalboard is becomming cramped enough as it is. I checked out its spec, and you know im almost tempted, its really damn cheap too, but no XLR output so the B2 + DI = more space than i want to waste.

[DosiYanarchy]

[quote=dannybuoy;6396157]If you don't like what the VT does to your fuzzes, you might find the BDDI has the same effect. There is one for sale on basschat for £75 though! The Behringer clone is worth a shot too.
[quote]

I HATED the sound of my fx through my BDDI when i had it, even more so than through the VTbass, but loved the sound it gave my bass tone, so i used to run it first (as i do the VTbass). I got rid of it because i wanted the VTbass, and felt like i was wasting the BDDI as i never used it as a DI.

Now I'd be happy to use a BDDI just as a DI, and send the Parallel out to my amp, so it wont colour my signal to my amp(as i already have the SVT/Fliptop sound from the VT), but should take some of the NASSSTTTYYness away from my fx (in a good way) when being DI'd.

As for the behringer - im not a hater, id spend more on behringer stuff if i thought it wouldnt crap out on me after a few weeks of stomping, i like the fact that they make some cheap copies of discontinued pedals (Boss Slow Gear, Spectrum enhancer, Digital Dimension, Dimension C), but i've heard the XLR-out probably isnt that reliable, even if the tone is. At the moment ive got space for a DI box, and i think that might be it (having a hard time squeezing stuff in at the moment, not including the Boss LS2 and MicroPog that should be comming this week)

I thought that BDDI on basschat had already gone? Id snatch that right up if i didnt get a bank statement telling me im broke (its not even registered the £45 for the Line Selector yet!) and its my anniversary, so my girlfriend wants dinner or something, damn her (well, she did buy me a MicroPOG)

urgh, id actually be quite happy with the DBX Passive DI, and a small EQ pedal that'll i can take the highs off my signal with.

ill post a pic to show you how much space ive actually got to work with

[CrackBass]

this is typically a guitar issue, and i am farmilliar with it as such. don't flame me but the behringer ultra di (the large red box) has a pretty decent cab simulator. (selectable on/off)

i have used it for high gain guitar with good results. i have found it to be a quallity unit with very little noise. the best part is they cost like $36 so try one and see if it works for you.