Difference between Big Muff Pi and Russian

Jornan · #1 03-12-2009, 08:45 AM

I wanted the same sound as Chris Wolstenholme in Muse, and was recomended a Big Muff Russian. However, I can only find Big Muff Pis for sale. Is it the same as the Russian, or is it a different model (if so, what's the difference?)

rratajski · #2 03-12-2009, 08:54 AM

Muffs are pedals made by a company called Electro-Harmonix. The pedals are called Big Muff Pi. There are many versions of the big muff created over time by EHX. Some are in current production, others are discontinued. The pedals are named mostly by their time period/version and different in many ways (resistor/capactor/transistor values).

You may want to look at wikipedia.org to learn more about Muse and Chris. There's also a Muse Wiki at www.musewiki.org. The search function on this forum is your friend, too.

Flintlock · #3 03-12-2009, 08:59 AM

Difference is that they both used whatever was available, in Russia, this turned out to be old tank parts (or so the legend goes).

EHX has reissued the russian one, it's supposed to be similar, it's black and available in a few places, but tricky to find. Chris Wolstenholme uses an original green one, the new ones are black, so no idea how close it actually is to his tone.

Differences are a few capacitors here, diodes here etc. Supposedly the bass big muff is closer to the russian, and will give better bass response and such.

rratajski · #4 03-12-2009, 11:30 AM

To clarify flint's comments, the green and black sound different. The black is WAY muddier than than the green, but both will do well for bass. They are both lower gain in voicing than the other muff versions.

**DosiYanarchy** · #5 03-12-2009, 01:55 PM

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but unfortunately while Chris Wolstenholme does indeed use the big muff, he also uses alot of other effects (including some rare/discontinued/very expensive ones), if you're a little more specific about what tone your looking for, maybe we could help a little more.

Also, take advantage of the 'Search' function, coz theres a bunch of info on chris's setup already on the forum.

**DosiYanarchy** · #6 03-12-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rratajski

You may want to look at wikipedia.org to learn more about Muse and Chris. There's also a Muse Wiki at www.musewiki.org. The search function on this forum is your friend, too.

lol didnt see that.

didnt mean to b a search nazi

**DosiYanarchy** · #7 03-12-2009, 02:15 PM

chris does use the black muff although he has used the green one aswell.

Also, to Jornan: both the green and black russian muffs are believed to be kinder to a bass players low end, as well as not sounding as muddy, I've owned 3 black russian muffs, a green russian, a little big muff, and a couple of muff clones (one of which rratajski built for me). The Green Stache is currently the only muff-type pedal for me and i highly recommend it, but I see ryan has updated the Fuzzrocious myspace to add EVEN MORE muff variants.

my advice is simple, if you want a muff - grab a bass big muff, or a clone from rratajski (he makes a couple of variants - i own the Green Stache).
http://www.myspace.com/fuzzrociouspedals

If you can find a russian at a price you feel is reasonable, then by all means grab it, see what it does for you.

JanusZarate · #8 03-12-2009, 02:32 PM

Jumping into the fray here:

To recap, Wolstenholme has used both versions of Russian Big Muffs (more recently the black one). The green one (a.k.a., "Sovtek Big Muff") is long discontinued, and the black one is still in production IIRC.

The Bass Big Muff, which came out last year, is EHX's answer to those who miss the old green Big Muff. It is supposed to be a somewhat modified version of the original in a smaller chassis with new features.

Wolstenholme's sound is not exclusively derived from the Big Muff, so beware. He uses a lot of different effects. Chances are, the sound you heard in any particular Muse song is not a Big Muff by itself, or even a Big Muff at all.

With all of that being said, I'd suggest checking out the Bass Big Muff because regardless of what you plan to use it for, it has a bass-friendly and versatile fuzz sound.

If you're trying to capture the sound of a particular song, be sure to use the "Search" function and type in the name of the song. There are a ton of threads discussing "Time Is Running Out" and other popular Muse songs which people are trying to imitate all the time...

**DosiYanarchy** · #9 03-12-2009, 02:43 PM

yo, Black russians are still being made? Man us brits are getting shafted.

oh yeah, i remember i emailed ehx about the Bass Big muff when i heard it was comming out, and i got a reply from a guy called Chip Scooter Duggan (i think) and seem to remember him saying it wasnt actually based on a green sovtek muff, coz they didnt actually having any to base the BBM on, so they had to base it on a Black russian and tweak from there - although then again i read elsewhere that the most recent black russian muffs are actually based on green sovtek ones.

sod it

I use a Prunes&Custard now anyway, muff be damned

Aquila0507 · #10 03-12-2009, 03:12 PM

Based on the GGG website of the BMP Green Russian Version Schematic the only difference between the black and green BMP is the values in the resistors 19 and 23. The black = R19:22k R23:2k7 and the Green= R19:20k & R23:2k. Has anyone tried to mod a black one to green specs? I want to try this but would like to know if anyone has done this and if it improves the black russian.

Jornan · #11 03-12-2009, 04:19 PM

Thanks for all the answers. I'll search and see what I can find.

To be specific: how can I make my MusicMan Bongo 4 HH and Behringer BXL 1800 sound like the bass in Hysteria by Muse?

rratajski · #12 03-12-2009, 04:27 PM

Two words: Studio Magic

TimmyDX · #13 03-12-2009, 05:08 PM

yeah if you check out that wiki, you'll discover he also uses a very expensive distortion box only available from some weird chinese site

AND the coveted Akai deep impact bass synth which is a huge part of his sound, i believe he runs three channels too.

So yeah, discontinued muff, discontinued synth and a hard to obtain distortion all with great sounds, i guess try your best with garage band or audition and see how they come out

live, your gonna need pedal variations such as those mentioned here, the boss bass synth will get the synth ball rolling, distortion i don't know what the one he uses sounds like on bass so feel free to experiment