differences between Sansamp BDDI and BD Programmable

[cchorney]

So I am looking at getting either a Sansamp BDDI or the 3 preset BD Programmable. Its kinda hard to see if there are any important differences. Obviously the Programmable allows for 3 presets, and its physically larger, so please consider my question my question is besides that.

I play passive only electric basses, and want to use the bass driver as a tube emulator.

The vendor website suggests that the emulator and eq circuitry are the same, is that the experience of people who've tried both?

They both take the same model number DC power supply, and at GC I tried a regular "1 Spot" on a BDDI and it worked.

They both have XLR out, 1/4 out, and 1/4 in.
The BDDI has a parallel out, not sure when I would use that, as when I am going to the board I want my signal affected, and I am only running 1 signal to 1 amp.

Here's the switches, and the root of my concerns, I think. Am I missing out on anything important by choosing the programmable?

Programmable on/off switches:
Phantom and ground connect
XLR out pad - minus some amount of db to the board
1/4 out boost - plus some amount of db to the amp (I think)

DBBI either/or switches:
Phantom and ground connect
Line or Instrument XLR
Line or Instrument Output

[cchorney]

Oh and I am pretty sure I will be using it with my ABC switch, pedal tuner, volume pedal, and maybe eq pedal (set flat, as a vol boost only) on my pedal board.

[tech21nyc]

The main difference between our Bass Driver DI and Bass Driver Programmable is the design concept. The Bass Driver DI was originally designed as a bass guitar specific direct box. Hence the parallel output. The idea was that you would use your amp for your onstage monitor and use the effected output of the BDDI to sound like your amp through the PA system. Obviously many people use the BDDI in line with their amp to obtain different tones etc.

The Programmable Bass Driver was designed as more of a preamp and that's why there is no parallel output. There would be no point to having three different sounds being DI'd to the PA while playing an onstage amp with one tone.

The Bass Driver Deluxe took things a step further and has extra features that the other two units don't have.

Your decision will depend upon what you are trying to accomplish with the pedal. If you only need 1 tone in a flexible format the BDDI is the way to go. If you need the ability to switch between different sounds on the fly the Programmable or Bass Driver Deluxe would be the better choice.

[cchorney]

Thanks, I wasn't really getting the purpose of the parallel out, so your explanation helps a lot. The amp I perform with has an XLR out but my keep-at-home vintage one doesn't, so I can see the use for it, for those in that situation. It sounds like either the BDDI or the BD Programmable will work as a "my amp konked out" direct box, which is a nice bit of insurance (and lighter than schlepping the backup amp).

I am really liking the "Fat Tube" sound, I am tempted to say as my "always on" sound... but the "Bassman" and "SVT" sounds I could also see a use for in my current band's repertoire, too. So I think it is the programmable for me. It fills my need for a sound, plus my lazy need to not make setting changes mid set.

Note: I had considered getting the BD Deluxe model as it would fit yet another role, since I am using an AB switch to run 2 instruments, but while the $10 difference between the BDDI and BD Programmable makes for a compelling argument, the extra $60 or so for the BD Deluxe when I already have a working AB switch, isn't persuasive enough.

[eagle67]

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

The main difference between our Bass Driver DI and Bass Driver Programmable is the design concept. The Bass Driver DI was originally designed as a bass guitar specific direct box. Hence the parallel output. The idea was that you would use your amp for your onstage monitor and use the effected output of the BDDI to sound like your amp through the PA system. Obviously many people use the BDDI in line with their amp to obtain different tones etc.

The Programmable Bass Driver was designed as more of a preamp and that's why there is no parallel output. There would be no point to having three different sounds being DI'd to the PA while playing an onstage amp with one tone.

The Bass Driver Deluxe took things a step further and has extra features that the other two units don't have.

Your decision will depend upon what you are trying to accomplish with the pedal. If you only need 1 tone in a flexible format the BDDI is the way to go. If you need the ability to switch between different sounds on the fly the Programmable or Bass Driver Deluxe would be the better choice.

I have also been wondering what the differences are, so thanks for your explanation. So let me see if I've got this right, and please tell me if I don't. The BDDI is basically a DI with tube amp emulation, and the Programable is meant to be used in line with your amp to obtain different (switchable) tones. If I'm right so far, I have 2 questions:
1. Is the Sansamp Deluxe a combination of the BDDI and the Programable, and hence the best of both worlds?
2. Could I use the Programable with one of the 3 presets set "flat" (no effects), and thus send the "pure" signal from my pickups to the sound board, just as if it were the BDDI? That would still leave me 2 presets for effects.

[cchorney]

Hi Eagle67,

Since starting this thread a while back, I've actually bought and have been using a BDDI Deluxe. So let me answer some of your questions.

1. Is the Sansamp Deluxe a combination of the BDDI and the Programable, and hence the best of both worlds?

The BDDI Programmable includes all the features of the basic BDDI (which is a direct box with amp/cab emulation, tone and gain controls), plus adds in some additional features, like 3 presets. The BDDI Deluxe includes all the features of the BDDI Programmable, plus adds in some additional features beyond that, like 2 switchable inputs, an effects loop, 6 presets, and a parallel out. So the Programmable has more features than the basic, and the Deluxe has more features than the Programmable.

2. Could I use the Programable with one of the 3 presets set "flat" (no effects), and thus send the "pure" signal from my pickups to the sound board, just as if it were the BDDI? That would still leave me 2 presets for effects.

You can run a dry signal in 2 ways out of the BDDI Programmable or Deluxe - you can send the signal out the parallel out, or you can tap whichever preset is active, thus deactivating it. You can have only one preset at a time active, but you can also have them all off, which is your dry signal. So if a preset is active and you want to just have your dry signal, just tap the button that is lit up and it turns it off, giving you your dry signal. If you are running the Programmable which has 3 presets, you could then have your dry signal (no channels on), effect 1 on channel 1, effect 2 on channel 2, and on channel 3 program in all knobs at 0 which will effectively make it a mute switch. That said, now that I have the BDDI, I always run with a channel active - my basic "bass to amp" doesn't sound as good as my "bass to BDDI to amp" sound.

[eagle67]

Thanks so much cchorney! Of course answers lead to more qyestions, so here's 2 more.
1. What led you to spend the extra $60 - $70 for the Deluxe (over the Programable)?
2. Do you ever use the Parallel Out on your Deluxe, or is the "dry signal" method you just described (all Presets off) good enough?

[cchorney]

No problem, happy to help. I've gotten so much from other people on this forum, seems the right thing to do to "pay it forward".

I got lucky and found (and immediately bought) a used Deluxe on Guitar Center's used gear section, so that was a real deal maker there for me, but the reason I chose the Deluxe was I wanted the 2 inputs, which would free up space on my pedal board that my A/B box was taking and give me 3 programmable slots per instrument.

Since then, I've changed things a bit; I decided to instead use just one input which would allow me to use all 6 programmable slots for the instrument. Those slots are Bank A - 1, 2, 3 and Bank B - 1, 2, 3. I have it programmed as:

A1: Tube B1: Tube, louder
A2: SVT B2: SVT, louder
A3: Mute B3: Mute

This allows me to get rid of my volume pedal instead. I just tap the input channel button to go from "A" normal volume to "B" louder volume. Useful for keeping the bass heard during guitar solos. Because I am using just one input, I will have to swap instruments the old fashioned way - by unplugging and replugging - but I have a mute button on both banks so I just hit button 3 and regardless of which input channel I am on, it's silent. And, I no longer need the A/B box or the volume pedal, so things are a bit tidier on the floor now.

I personally haven't used either the effects loop or the parallel out. I could see using the parallel out if you wanted to blend an effect heavy sound with a clean sound, each going into a separate amp (or something). But that's not really my thing. And I don't really run effects. My sound going to the mixing board for the PA is coming from the XLR out so if I were to run effects, I would need to either run them thru the effects loop in the Sansamp (which is a pain as you have to sorta tap dance a bit to turn it on and off) or run my sound to the mixing board from my amp's XLR out instead (way more likely).

[eagle67]

It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this.
So - while I'm eating lunch, it dawned on me. The parallel out. The difference between the 3 Sansamps:
Even though you can use the Programable to create every tone that the Deluxe can create, you can only use, transmit, one tone at a time. The parallel out on the basic BDDI and on the Deluxe, allows 2 different signals to leave the box AT THE SAME TIME, one effected and the other dry. I can't believe it took me 2 days to sort this out. If I had the 3 boxes all in front of me, I would have picked up on this right away. Thanks again.

[cchorney]

There is that. :-)

For me a much more valuable difference between the 3 was the 2 inputs on the Deluxe and 6 presets. The Deluxe further gives the one channel effects loop (which wasn't a driver for me).

useful link to all the Bass Driver owners manuals...
Index of /support/manuals/sansamp

[eagle67]

Thanks for all your help cchorney. My needs are pretty simple. I only use one bass, and I don't need to change sounds on the fly, but I like the option of the parallel output. So based on all that I will buy the basic BDDI. Keep me posted on what you learn, and I will do the same.

[jymyben]

>"or you can tap whichever preset is active, thus deactivating it. You can have only one preset at a time active, but you can also have them all off, which is your dry signal. So if a preset is active and you want to just have your dry signal, just tap the button that is lit up and it turns it off, giving you your dry signal."

is this a total bypass of the sansamp when doing this, or would i need to run the sansamp thru a looper to get a true bypass happening?

thanks....

Originally Posted by cchorney

Hi Eagle67,

Since starting this thread a while back, I've actually bought and have been using a BDDI Deluxe. So let me answer some of your questions.


The BDDI Programmable includes all the features of the basic BDDI (which is a direct box with amp/cab emulation, tone and gain controls), plus adds in some additional features, like 3 presets. The BDDI Deluxe includes all the features of the BDDI Programmable, plus adds in some additional features beyond that, like 2 switchable inputs, an effects loop, 6 presets, and a parallel out. So the Programmable has more features than the basic, and the Deluxe has more features than the Programmable.


You can run a dry signal in 2 ways out of the BDDI Programmable or Deluxe - you can send the signal out the parallel out, or you can tap whichever preset is active, thus deactivating it. You can have only one preset at a time active, but you can also have them all off, which is your dry signal. So if a preset is active and you want to just have your dry signal, just tap the button that is lit up and it turns it off, giving you your dry signal. If you are running the Programmable which has 3 presets, you could then have your dry signal (no channels on), effect 1 on channel 1, effect 2 on channel 2, and on channel 3 program in all knobs at 0 which will effectively make it a mute switch. That said, now that I have the BDDI, I always run with a channel active - my basic "bass to amp" doesn't sound as good as my "bass to BDDI to amp" sound.

[cchorney]

Originally Posted by jymyben

>"or you can tap whichever preset is active, thus deactivating it. You can have only one preset at a time active, but you can also have them all off, which is your dry signal. So if a preset is active and you want to just have your dry signal, just tap the button that is lit up and it turns it off, giving you your dry signal."

is this a total bypass of the sansamp when doing this, or would i need to run the sansamp thru a looper to get a true bypass happening?

thanks....

Now why didn't you just go into Google and search on "sansamp bypass"? It would have been less work AND you would have gotten an immediate answer. Sigh.

Don't do it now - I did it for you: TECH 21 - TECH NOTES

[jymyben]

what?

google can be used for other things than looking for pics of hot babes?

thanks for the link....

Originally Posted by cchorney

Now why didn't you just go into Google and search on "sansamp bypass"? It would have been less work AND you would have gotten an immediate answer. Sigh.

Don't do it now - I did it for you: TECH 21 - TECH NOTES

[cchorney]

Nice job avoiding the butthurt bait.

[tech21nyc]

Originally Posted by jymyben

>"or you can tap whichever preset is active, thus deactivating it. You can have only one preset at a time active, but you can also have them all off, which is your dry signal. So if a preset is active and you want to just have your dry signal, just tap the button that is lit up and it turns it off, giving you your dry signal."

is this a total bypass of the sansamp when doing this, or would i need to run the sansamp thru a looper to get a true bypass happening?

thanks....

The SansAmp circuit is bypassed. Our pedals are not true bypass. We use a high quality buffer circuit.

[jaibeau]

Trying to see if anyone else notices a obvious tone change when effects loop is engaged but effects are not even on. I notice a quality dive in lows, seem to get clippy and loss of tone with a Db cut that is quite noticeable. It's not real bad, but enough for me to not want to use thR loop. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[REDLAWMAN]

One thing I can state categorically as an owner of the BDDI, the Deluxe (my second) and V2 of the VT Bass: the programmable version- despite the convenience of the pre-sets- is considerably more 'noisy' than the regular version. Fact; period.

[tech21nyc]

Originally Posted by REDLAWMAN

One thing I can state categorically as an owner of the BDDI, the Deluxe (my second) and V2 of the VT Bass: the programmable version- despite the convenience of the pre-sets- is considerably more 'noisy' than the regular version. Fact; period.

I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. We just put the Bass Driver and the Deluxe on the bench and both units measured the same.

How were you conducting your tests? Did you have a scope and an FFT on hand? Were you using the Bass Driver as a DI or as an amp emulator? Into the board, into an amp etc.? When using the SansAmp circuit, the distortion produced by the tube amp emulation will add a certain amount of hiss that is normal in this type of circuit just like a real tube amp. We don't use noise gates in our products which many digital modelers do.

Did you have the volume of your guitar turned off so you were only hearing the noise of the unit and not the sound of any noise your instrument was producing. Also your environment can contribute to the noise floor. If you are close to a computer screen or other interference this will be amplified.

Also, you can't directly compare settings of the regular and Deluxe versions. The Deluxe unit uses digi-pots and sends voltage to a microprocessor and the single version is passing audio through the pots. The digi-pots have a different taper than than the analog pots on the single version. To test in an accurate manner you need to run the units through the FFT and match the settings.

[G.Bisson]

Originally Posted by REDLAWMAN

One thing I can state categorically as an owner of the BDDI, the Deluxe (my second) and V2 of the VT Bass: the programmable version- despite the convenience of the pre-sets- is considerably more 'noisy' than the regular version. Fact; period.

I agree. I have owned regular and deluxe versions of both BDDI and VT (v.1) and for each I found the deluxe version to be more noisy. Power supplies didn't make any difference. The noise level was still higher than the standard versions even when using a battery. I even called Tech21 customer support about this issue and they claimed not to know of this problem and suggested I send in my deluxe to be inspected (which I didn't because it is a piece of gear I can't live without).